politics thread

[Kevin12773]

@skinsdad62

Army played outfuckingstanding on Saturday.

 

[gkekoa]

What does being married, having a father figure in the home, access to private education, access to a free tutor, fears of a cell phone being shut off, having to help parents out with bills, or wondering where your next meal is going to come from has to do with race. It is proven in the same video with white people still at the starting line.

It is inconceivable that you watched your own video (#1) and focused on the "white" people still at the starting line. It's an old trick but it really doesn't play well with the facts as they currently exist in this country. To be clear, racism was the basis on which the country was built and remains today systemically. Tell you what since you want to play games, show me any evidence that you can find where there was an eradication of systemic racism, anywhere! Did you watch your own video (#1) Did you notice that some of the participants never bothered to run? This is an answer to one of your previous questions. Finally, did you take note of what the speaker said at the end? It's instructive!

Now, let me ask why the guy talks about paying for college but omits athleticism? He is likely referring to parents paying for college but what about academic scholarships? He closes with stating everything he stated had nothing to do with the kid, which is wrong because academic scholarships have everything to do with the kids.

Now you're conflating two different things and what follows misses the mark. He omits athleticism in order to get the viewer/ participant to see things evenly. Athleticism is not something that everyone has. He also didn't include academic scholarships for the same reason. What were you seeing/hearing, something that you wanted to see/hear? If you view it again, try seeing it for what it is and not what you want it to be!

You see. I fully understand the word privilege and understand that individuals have advantages over other individuals. I fully understand schools in location A are superior to schools in location B. I disagree with the belief that those advantages are based on race.

So what would you then call this so-called "privilege" when the majority of the same type individuals are getting it and the majority, if not all, of another group of individuals are not afforded the same "privilege?" Go ahead, you can say it! "Privilege is built upon something, right? Why are there schools that are superior to others? what is it about child "A" that's different from child "B" in the United States of America? Is one life more valuable than another? BTW: if you believe that, Why?

So let's talk about Ben Shapiro And Jesse Lee Peterson. In order, whenever someone first puts a name to a thing then defines it from his POV, watch out!! Mr. Shapiro does this with his opening words. His are..."white privilege is responsible for everything." Where did he get this notion? (rhetorical) You see the issue is not "white privilege" in his speech, the issue is "everything." In the human condition, nothing is absolute (although it's said death and taxes) and therefore absolutes, as is the case here, is easily disproven.


Jesse Lee Peterson, a man that I happen to know, is, to be kind, misguided in his presentations and a rather clever fellow in profiteering from the same. He combines religion with politics, has zero standing in communities of color and has largely made his money by selling snake oil to audiences who already hold positions that he hammers home. Know what? I'm not going to further disparage him as I'm sure that we will cross paths again. I'll just say, privately, he changes his game and apparently his position when facts, that he's well aware of, are reintroduced. Is it possible for you to introduce something from another conservative with more credible standing...Armstrong Williams perhaps?

Actually, I have seen this several times, but this was the first time I noticed white people still at the starting line. Racism was not the basis for this country...freedom was. Racism existed. Well, the system allows for lawsuits and laws are made to protect minorities. The only truly law that is by definition systemically racist is affirmative action. Who cares if people chose not to run? I am sure you refuse to see the point that giving up is a choice. You are apparently a fool Sty because you bought into the crap he was spouting? Seriously, point out anything that was race based in his privilege statements.

No...he told them if they didn’t have to pay for college because of anything other than athletics, to take a step forward. So he told people on athletic scholarships to not move forward but those on academic scholarships to move forward. Maybe you should take your own advice and start listening to the actual words.

Schools are successful because of students, not teachers and faculty. Perhaps if black people would stop voting democrat, then school choice would become a real thing for the inner cities. Also, good teachers don’t want to go to the inner city because the students do not want to listen. From there, schools in rural America where whites are the majority, they do not get the funding of richer areas. If you can’t see that richer areas should have nicer schools because that is who is paying for them and that I should where better teachers want to be, then that is your issue. It isn’t white privilege...it is wealthy privilege. There are plenty of unprivileged whites and plenty of privileged blacks. Only whites in today’s society’s have laws specifically targeted to hold them back.

 

[Stymietee]

Actually, I have seen this several times, but this was the first time I noticed white people still at the starting line. Racism was not the basis for this country...freedom was. Racism existed. Well, the system allows for lawsuits and laws are made to protect minorities. The only truly law that is by definition systemically racist is affirmative action. Who cares if people chose not to run? I am sure you refuse to see the point that giving up is a choice. You are apparently a fool Sty because you bought into the crap he was spouting? Seriously, point out anything that was race based in his privilege statements.

No...he told them if they didn’t have to pay for college because of anything other than athletics, to take a step forward. So he told people on athletic scholarships to not move forward but those on academic scholarships to move forward. Maybe you should take your own advice and start listening to the actual words.

Schools are successful because of students, not teachers and faculty. Perhaps if black people would stop voting democrat, then school choice would become a real thing for the inner cities. Also, good teachers don’t want to go to the inner city because the students do not want to listen. From there, schools in rural America where whites are the majority, they do not get the funding of richer areas. If you can’t see that richer areas should have nicer schools because that is who is paying for them and that I should where better teachers want to be, then that is your issue. It isn’t white privilege...it is wealthy privilege. There are plenty of unprivileged whites and plenty of privileged blacks. Only whites in today’s society’s have laws specifically targeted to hold them back.

I'm just going to ask this straight up, and take you at your word. Are you a racist?

What's your obsession with people who you refer to as "black," and why is it that you seem to make a distinction between citizens of this country? Apologies, but there just wasn't a way to ask without offending.

 

[gkekoa]

I'm just going to ask this straight up, and take you at your word. Are you a racist?

What's your obsession with people who you refer to as "black," and why is it that you seem to make a distinction between citizens of this country? Apologies, but there just wasn't a way to ask without offending.

Not in the least bit. I believe black people are capable of the same things white people are. I believe individual black people are the same as individual white people. I don’t believe black people need help to be successful. I don’t believe pigmentation makes a person inferior or superior. I believe choices have consequences regardless of pigmentation.

I don’t have an obsession with black people or white people. I like to discuss things with people and I do not worry about offending people with my opinion. That is why I was the only one to answer your question a few pages back even when I know it is a set up.

As for making distinctions between citizens of this country, I don’t. I use the words “black community” because black people refer to themselves in that manner. I wish they wouldn’t. If there is a “black community, “ then logically, there is a “white community.” I wish Americans would stop hyphenating themselves and simply be Americans.

I dislike bad people equally. I want all murderers, violent rapists, pedophiles, and armed robbers executed. I want for all Americans to understand liberty means you are responsible for your own bad outcomes. I read an article earlier today murder rate. They broke it down into white murder rate and black murder rate, both of which were going up. They said the black murder rate is going up because the police may be holding back their enforcement of the law because of the hate being spilled from the same high crime areas they patrol. They can’t win either way. Then I read that the white murder rate is increasing because of opioids. I could see both and had little sympathy for either and could see the logic in both.

 

[gkekoa]

Oh Sty, I forgot. No problems on the offending me part because I do not believe that is your intent. I also truly respect these conversations we have because typically, they are very civil. Even though we disagree with aspects, I do appreciate the delivery of your arguments.

 

[Stymietee]

Oh Sty, I forgot. No problems on the offending me part because I do not believe that is your intent. I also truly respect these conversations we have because typically, they are very civil. Even though we disagree with aspects, I do appreciate the delivery of your arguments.

Not in the least bit. I believe black people are capable of the same things white people are. I believe individual black people are the same as individual white people. I don’t believe black people need help to be successful. I don’t believe pigmentation makes a person inferior or superior. I believe choices have consequences regardless of pigmentation.

I don’t have an obsession with black people or white people. I like to discuss things with people and I do not worry about offending people with my opinion. That is why I was the only one to answer your question a few pages back even when I know it is a set up.

As for making distinctions between citizens of this country, I don’t. I use the words “black community” because black people refer to themselves in that manner. I wish they wouldn’t. If there is a “black community, “ then logically, there is a “white community.” I wish Americans would stop hyphenating themselves and simply be Americans.

I dislike bad people equally. I want all murderers, violent rapists, pedophiles, and armed robbers executed. I want for all Americans to understand liberty means you are responsible for your own bad outcomes. I read an article earlier today murder rate. They broke it down into white murder rate and black murder rate, both of which were going up. They said the black murder rate is going up because the police may be holding back their enforcement of the law because of the hate being spilled from the same high crime areas they patrol. They can’t win either way. Then I read that the white murder rate is increasing because of opioids. I could see both and had little sympathy for either and could see the logic in both.

OK, well stated!

Civil conversations sans the labels are the key to solving a lot of problems. It is because of this, you'll notice that I routinely use quotations to denote objectionable terms. Individualism is fine, just as long as our conversations have a particular subject as its target. Regarding your beliefs that individual "black" people can do what individual "white" people can, isn't it a bit unbalanced to classify swaths of people as doing this , doing that, because of this, because of that, when in fact we all individually arrive at places we live for numerous reasons? No one comes into this life choosing to live where they are, under which socioeconomic conditions they're born into or after selecting parentage. It's luck of the draw made manifestly detrimental or fortunate in a country built upon making distinctions by class, "race" and property. That said, "Individualism" is fine as a goal.

So much for the end game, now on to responding to the heart of your response. I wanted to take some time to consider your last post and offer a response worthy of such an introspective view.

In a perfect world Individualism would be a great way to see, view and judge one another. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world as perfect as that, and apparently, have no desire to work towards a time and space where it's engrained into daily life. What we do have is systemic racism cloaked in tribalism, class distinctions, sexism, sexual depravity, sexual ignorance, religious psychosis, greed, and of course individualism among a host of other mental and societal disorders.

So let's talk about what has been the focus through all of these posts...racism/tribalism, and the dangers of individualism, based on its description in Immanuel Kant’s dictum, that "each person is to be treated equally not merely as a means but as an end in himself." Long after Kant's time this same edit was espoused by Ayn Rand and in current times by the likes of former US senator Ron Paul and his son and now US senator Rand.

The basic principals in that edit is "equality" and the individual's "right" to operate as he or she pleases in a lawful society. Kant's dictum at it's inception immediately faced questions with respect to slavery and the rights of women. Fast forward to today and it's obvious that we're no closer to answering questions that allows individualism to take root than we were when Kant originally uttered them. The question now is... why? Well, if you're paying attention, I've already answered this question when I referred to: "systemic racism cloaked in tribalism, class distinctions, sexism, sexual depravity, sexual ignorance, religious psychosis, greed, and of course individualism among a host of other mental and societal disorders."

In effect, to push the "individualism" position as an operational (all inclusive) personal stance necessarily, denies the realities of current America. For all of the good that it promises in theory, we don't have the luxury of living in a theoretical society. One clear example of this is illustrated in the current debate over a woman's right to choose. Individualists at first blush should be in favor of any woman desiring to terminate. The realities of our time is that their religious values or lack thereof and/or other disease, conflicts with their individualistic stance. This test can be applied in relation to systemic racism as well, as we witness instance after instance of "while black" reports of police being called to respond to individuals doing ordinary things. As it turns out, one American doing ordinary things in a lawful manner as is his/her protected right, will, in modern America, get another interrupted or killed for doing the exact same thing. Individualism as a goal...sure, but before going that route, it's imperative that the destructive nature of long practiced systemic ills are done away with, in order to prepare spaces for that ideal to take root.

 

[ehb5]

i dont think i said they didnt have respect for family . i said the stats say that single parent homes where the father or mother is absent (not in child's life ) in 72 % of time the kids end up in poverty . its in the 70% they end up in trouble (meaning those being arrested and committing crimes )

this is for any race

also 3 things to avoid poverty

finish HS or get GED

dont have kids before 20

dont get married till 21

do those 3 things and chances are (3 in 4) you wont end up in poverty

this is also for any race

So why do think certain races fall victim to this more than others?

 

[ehb5]

I didn’t say an entire group. I said the group as a whole when in comparison. I will give you a whole other subsection of that same group. The children of black soldiers don’t seem to have the issues of other members of the black community. I wonder why that is?

But why do you think on average one group is making worse choices (your argument)?

 

[gkekoa]

OK, well stated!

Civil conversations sans the labels are the key to solving a lot of problems. It is because of this, you'll notice that I routinely use quotations to denote objectionable terms. Individualism is fine, just as long as our conversations have a particular subject as its target. Regarding your beliefs that individual "black" people can do what individual "white" people can, isn't it a bit unbalanced to classify swaths of people as doing this , doing that, because of this, because of that, when in fact we all individually arrive at places we live for numerous reasons? No one comes into this life choosing to live where they are, under which socioeconomic conditions they're born into or after selecting parentage. It's luck of the draw made manifestly detrimental or fortunate in a country built upon making distinctions by class, "race" and property. That said, "Individualism" is fine as a goal.

So much for the end game, now on to responding to the heart of your response. I wanted to take some time to consider your last post and offer a response worthy of such an introspective view.

In a perfect world Individualism would be a great way to see, view and judge one another. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world as perfect as that, and apparently, have no desire to work towards a time and space where it's engrained into daily life. What we do have is systemic racism cloaked in tribalism, class distinctions, sexism, sexual depravity, sexual ignorance, religious psychosis, greed, and of course individualism among a host of other mental and societal disorders.

So let's talk about what has been the focus through all of these posts...racism/tribalism, and the dangers of individualism, based on its description in Immanuel Kant’s dictum, that "each person is to be treated equally not merely as a means but as an end in himself." Long after Kant's time this same edit was espoused by Ayn Rand and in current times by the likes of former US senator Ron Paul and his son and now US senator Rand.

The basic principals in that edit is "equality" and the individual's "right" to operate as he or she pleases in a lawful society. Kant's dictum at it's inception immediately faced questions with respect to slavery and the rights of women. Fast forward to today and it's obvious that we're no closer to answering questions that allows individualism to take root than we were when Kant originally uttered them. The question now is... why? Well, if you're paying attention, I've already answered this question when I referred to: "systemic racism cloaked in tribalism, class distinctions, sexism, sexual depravity, sexual ignorance, religious psychosis, greed, and of course individualism among a host of other mental and societal disorders."

In effect, to push the "individualism" position as an operational (all inclusive) personal stance necessarily, denies the realities of current America. For all of the good that it promises in theory, we don't have the luxury of living in a theoretical society. One clear example of this is illustrated in the current debate over a woman's right to choose. Individualists at first blush should be in favor of any woman desiring to terminate. The realities of our time is that their religious values or lack thereof and/or other disease, conflicts with their individualistic stance. This test can be applied in relation to systemic racism as well, as we witness instance after instance of "while black" reports of police being called to respond to individuals doing ordinary things. As it turns out, one American doing ordinary things in a lawful manner as is his/her protected right, will, in modern America, get another interrupted or killed for doing the exact same thing. Individualism as a goal...sure, but before going that route, it's imperative that the destructive nature of long practiced systemic ills are done away with, in order to prepare spaces for that ideal to take root.

I agree that there are disproportionate number of “blacks” in situations that are less than what they deserve. I believe, if some of these “blacks” were in the same spot a small some “whites,” they would be in a similar position as some of these “whites.” I agree we don’t choose our socioeconomic status, where we live as children, or our parents. That being said, it isn’t because of my race that I have privilege. My parents were not wealthy. My dad was enlisted and my mom was a stay at home mom, but they were somewhat frugal. I was from a small town in MD, until my dad joined the Navy when I was three. My hometown tends to keep people there, and away from their potential. I didn’t get to choose where I was from. So on those first two counts, I had the same strikes as a “black person” has. Now, I am very happy with my parents. My dad worked his way up to CMC, and my mom got her degree when I was in college. My dad joined the Navy and got us out of MD. None of what I just said has anything to do with race. Every black person is more than capable of doing the same thing...and many do.

And this is where we totally disagree. Individualism is exactly what we need. We are not guaranteed an equal result in life because we all make choices on a daily basis that lead us down different paths. Drs make more than a clerk at Wal-Mart, as they should. Two clerks at Wal-Mart make the same amount of money. One chooses to spend it every pay check. The other saves their money for future gain. The person that goes for instant gratification will later bitch that the other employee has too much. Choices. As for a woman’s right to choose, it has never been about the woman’s body. It has always been about the child inside. I never use religion in this discussion because people such as yourself would dismiss anything I said. It is always people such as yourself that brings religion into the conversation. My belief is based on the founding document of this country. We are endowed by our Creator, whomever that is, with certain inalienable rights. Creation of the child is obvious...conception. We could discuss heartbeat, brain waves, or viability but usually we simply disagree...people just start to blame religion which has literally nothing to do with it.

Apparently, cops can do no right with black people. First, they are too mean to black criminals or suspects. Then, they stop active policing because they are called racists, even black cops. Then, people get mad because they aren’t doing enough to stop the criminals from doing what they do.

 

[skinsdad62]

So why do think certain races fall victim to this more than others?

i dont think any race is more likely to have that happen

 

[ehb5]

i dont think any race is more likely to have that happen

But werent you saying that one race has had it happen more?

 

[skinsdad62]

But werent you saying that one race has had it happen more?

boy , i dont think so , i think i have said that it applies to all races , now if i did i will stand corrected

 

[ehb5]

all i can say is 7 out of ten blacks come from homes without both parents in the home or involved . samne with virtually any race

stable homes are essential for good outcomes . now you can pull out the 30% and say fuck it , it dont matter

This is the post i was referring to.

Not trying to misrepresent anything just trying to understand where you're coming from

 

[skinsdad62]

This is the post i was referring to.

Not trying to misrepresent anything just trying to understand where you're coming from

well ebb look at the whole statement particularly when i said "same with virtually any race "

high crime and poverty occur when there isnt a stable 2 parent home . ( both parent involvement )

it doesnt matter the race as i said virtually in any race

you have a 70% chance of ending up in poverty if both parents arent a presence in the home

add to it not finishing HS or getting a GED

having kids before age 20

getting married before 21

race has nothing to do with that but choices do

 

[Stymietee]

I agree that there are disproportionate number of “blacks” in situations that are less than what they deserve. I believe, if some of these “blacks” were in the same spot a small some “whites,” they would be in a similar position as some of these “whites.” I agree we don’t choose our socioeconomic status, where we live as children, or our parents. That being said, it isn’t because of my race that I have privilege. My parents were not wealthy. My dad was enlisted and my mom was a stay at home mom, but they were somewhat frugal. I was from a small town in MD, until my dad joined the Navy when I was three. My hometown tends to keep people there, and away from their potential. I didn’t get to choose where I was from. So on those first two counts, I had the same strikes as a “black person” has. Now, I am very happy with my parents. My dad worked his way up to CMC, and my mom got her degree when I was in college. My dad joined the Navy and got us out of MD. None of what I just said has anything to do with race. Every black person is more than capable of doing the same thing...and many do.

And this is where we totally disagree. Individualism is exactly what we need. We are not guaranteed an equal result in life because we all make choices on a daily basis that lead us down different paths. Drs make more than a clerk at Wal-Mart, as they should. Two clerks at Wal-Mart make the same amount of money. One chooses to spend it every pay check. The other saves their money for future gain. The person that goes for instant gratification will later bitch that the other employee has too much. Choices. As for a woman’s right to choose, it has never been about the woman’s body. It has always been about the child inside. I never use religion in this discussion because people such as yourself would dismiss anything I said. It is always people such as yourself that brings religion into the conversation. My belief is based on the founding document of this country. We are endowed by our Creator, whomever that is, with certain inalienable rights. Creation of the child is obvious...conception. We could discuss heartbeat, brain waves, or viability but usually we simply disagree...people just start to blame religion which has literally nothing to do with it.

Apparently, cops can do no right with black people. First, they are too mean to black criminals or suspects. Then, they stop active policing because they are called racists, even black cops. Then, people get mad because they aren’t doing enough to stop the criminals from doing what they do.

Most of this is a bit confusing, I'll make every attempt to understand some of the disconnects and get back to you.

 

[skinsdad62]

From the Rose Garden at the WhiteHouse, POTUS announces the elimination of NAFTA and the creation of the “United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement” (USMCA) - that facilitates free, fair and reciprocal trade and protects American farmers, American workers and American industry.

Now weren’t we talking about how tarrifs harmed us not long ago and I said he was using them to renegotiate our deals ? Ex b South Korea ex a . Europe soon to follow

 

[Stymietee]

From the Rose Garden at the WhiteHouse, POTUS announces the elimination of NAFTA and the creation of the “United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement” (USMCA) - that facilitates free, fair and reciprocal trade and protects American farmers, American workers and American industry.

Now weren’t we talking about how tarrifs harmed us not long ago and I said he was using them to renegotiate our deals ? Ex b South Korea ex a . Europe soon to follow

Take a moment to read the NAFTA agreement and compare it to this newly named USMCA and you'll find that with the exception of a few minor wording changes, they are practically the same thing. You guys were warned that this guy is a con man and now you have more proof. It's his MO man, take credit for what someone else has done such as paying to put his name on someone else's building or claiming that he started out with a million dollar loan and turned it into a billion dollar empire and now this. It's sad really, that people are still, "buying" his bullshit!

 

[skinsdad62]

There are quite a few changes in our favor

 

[Stymietee]

The biggest one that I can find is more dairy exports to Canada. In fact, the numbers will increase from 3.33% to 3.5%...big whoop!, there's already blowback from Canadian dairy farmers, who insist that they are capable of providing Canada with all of their dairy needs. It seems that these exchanges are merely designed to keep the world market viable. You're close to my age, remember when this country was called the breadbasket of the world. Food is completely immersed in the effort to prevent wars.

On another front, why in the hell are we borrowing money from China in order to pay our farmers NOT to sell their goods to the Chinese? Exploding the national debt too!!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw3PUlbF1P5LNkFkRLmb7iCh

 

[Sportster 72]

There are quite a few changes in our favor

and takes credit for everything this president does? And we could probably go on for every president in history.

It is all about point of view and who you like.

Seems to someone flipped the hourglass. Last guy was great/terrible the new guy is great/terrible. The last guy is claiming todays successes were due to what he put in place while the new guy hollers "SEE, I told you I could do this job better." It is kind of like sports. Put on a uniform and choose your team.