Off Season

[Hit-n-Run]

Yeah,
A few moving parts in the Kyle Crockett signing. Waiver claim, elected free agency, signed minor league deal. Crockett's agent may have been able to get him a perk or two if he makes the club out of ST by electing free agency and negotiating a new deal.

 

[JohnU]

There's only one explanation for that set of events is if Crockett somehow enhanced his bargaining power by going into the office, saying, "OK, how do we work this deal?"
I thought when they signed him, he had "25-man" written all over him, then saw he'd bolted. So I never followed it again until I saw an analysis that projected him for the bullpen.
I thought, 'whoa, how'd they get him back?'

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Another guy the Reds signed to a minor league deal is former Cardinals catcher Tony Cruz. Not a bad guy to have in the system. There's added value in having the young developing pitchers working with a veteran backstop in Louisville. Also gives the club another option if the need should arise and with Mesoraco it has much too often. Stuart Turner is probably the first phone call, but you always need a plan b.

 

[JohnU]

I saw the Cruz signing. I wish the guy could hit.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Tony Cruz career BA is a little more than his weight. Too bad he doesn't weigh more.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I see Todd Frazier signed with the Mets. 2yrs/$17M

There's a lot of guys still holding out. I expect to see more players get antsy as ST approaches and sign for less than they really want. It'll be interesting to see WHO if any of the top FA are willing to hold out past OD.

 

[JohnU]

I see Todd Frazier signed with the Mets. 2yrs/$17M

There's a lot of guys still holding out. I expect to see more players get antsy as ST approaches and sign for less than they really want. It'll be interesting to see WHO if any of the top FA are willing to hold out past OD.

Seeing as how teams like the Rangers are plugging their holes with Bartolo Colon it's obvious some kind of message is being sent. Frazier to the Mets comes as no surprise.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

With David Wright being AWOL the Mets were in need of a corner IF. A lot of people saw the Mets and Frazier as a good fit.

The message I'm getting is that clubs are negotiating looking forward instead of the past practice of paying for who the guy use to be.

The current pay structure never made sense. The most productive team control seasons are underpaid with a mega FA bonus at the end to balance the ledger. The problem is there's no guarantee of the FA money, but there's a CBA locking in the pay structure of the team control years. Teams are breaking from past practice and it has caught the Player's Union by surprise.

 

[JohnU]

Good points. It seems like some operations are content with lightning in a bottle, flush and rebuild.
Clearly the Pirates did that. The Royals are one of the worst teams in the league now. We anointed them small market Cinderella 2 years ago.
It seems these FOs, not unlike what the Reds did, are content in asking fans to be patient while they somehow find a golden egg in the buzzard's nest. The rebuild is in its 4th year and probably will take at least one more, provided the players on the roster actually outplay their baseball card stats.
So you could be right. The math suggests you can lose cheaper, so why not just lose? The structure protects the franchise. The fans have shown themselves to be patient. As pissed off as we have been about the Reds, we haven't stopped watching them play.
And let's face it -- the Yankees can sign Harper, Kershaw, Bumgarner, Bryant and have a team that wins 139 games -- they still have to win a best-of-7 to win the W.S.

 

[JohnU]

This is the sort of deal that fogs me.
Brewers have 4 catchers on their depth chart so they are willing to part with Susac for cash to a team that doesn't need him either.

Brewers trade catcher Andrew Susac to Orioles

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Maybe both GM's were standing at the coffee machine and the Brewers GM Stearns didn't have any change in his pocket. So they made a deal.

Could be that a Susac for two bits gets you a cup of coffee.

 

[JohnU]

Maybe both GM's were standing at the coffee machine and the Brewers GM Stearns didn't have any change in his pocket. So they made a deal.

Could be that a Susac for two bits gets you a cup of coffee.

I think, what this proves or strongly suggests, is that the front offices of these teams don't give a friar's fuck about the careers of the marginal athletes. This guy gets a new mailing address for no good reason in the spring, and he goes from one team that doesn't need him to another team that doesn't need him, which means he will be DFA and picked up by still another team that by that time won't need him either.
Why didn't the Brewers at least attempt to find a team that could use a catcher with 375 MLB plate appearances? If they were gonna dump him for cash, it's not like they had any other issue than a logjam on the 40-man.
I guess the players know what they are in for but it seems the front office didn't even bother to ask the other 28 teams if they could use a spare catcher.

Dunno maybe they did call around and the guy is a flaming jerk and nobody wants him.
Kinda like AJ Pierzinski did for 16 years.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I think there's the occasion when the club looks out for the player if it doesn't hurt their interest, but more times than not it's all business.

All I know about Susac is what I read in the article linked above. It said he had one option year remaining, so it's strange they DFA him and expose him to waivers unless they thought he would clear wavers and they could assign him to AAA. I think the Orioles may have been the fly in the ointment by claiming him and subsequently forcing a trade.

With the Reds current lack of depth at catcher you'd think they might have claimed him if he had potential. Waiver wire claims are offered to teams in the same league first, so there were no NL teams that claimed him. I don't know anything about Susac, but it appears that every team in the NL didn't think he was better than whomever they currently have as the 40th man on the roster.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Between now and OD is when you see better talent on the waiver wire. Injured players are only exempt from being counted on the 40 man during the season. That rule often forces team to drop a player they otherwise would keep on the roster during the offseason.

I think the MLB should have an injured reserve list that exempts them from the 40 man rules until they are medically ready to return. The roster rules are meant to keep teams from hoarding talent in the minors that could be playing at the MLB level elsewhere. But the rules sometimes hurt the players it was meant to protect.

 

[JohnU]

Between now and OD is when you see better talent on the waiver wire. Injured players are only exempt from being counted on the 40 man during the season. That rule often forces team to drop a player they otherwise would keep on the roster during the offseason.
8
I think the MLB should have an injured reserve list that exempts them from the 40 man rules until they are medically ready to return. The roster rules are meant to keep teams from hoarding talent in the minors that could be playing at the MLB level elsewhere. But the rules sometimes hurt the players it was meant to protect.

All the more reason to create a 4-A league that's basically independent, with some MLB subsidy for coaching, etc ... and maybe a general salary pool. I think you could cull out enough franchises to make it work and let guys negotiate their own deals.

As an academic example, Susac is good enough to make an MLB roster but he's (a.) got no place to improve his game at the minor-league level and (b.) is stuck in a system that needs to negotiate away other players to find room for him. The alternative is to go to Japan. When a guy is 28 years old, he's considered fully cooked. That's a guy who belongs in a 4-A league. He's not old enough to mentor young pitchers.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Triple A in large part has become a AAAA league. We're seeing less and less top talent spend significant time at that level if any at all. It's become a state of limbo for the 4-A players.

Teams are showing an unwillingness to sign older FA this offseason. If that strategy continues it'll provide more opportunity for guys viewed as marginal. There have been plenty of examples of marginal players proving scouts wrong. Justin Turner whom the Reds gave away and the Mets nontendered would be a good example. Sometimes all that is really missing is the opportunity.

 

[JohnU]

Triple A in large part has become a AAAA league. We're seeing less and less top talent spend significant time at that level if any at all. It's become a state of limbo for the 4-A players.

Teams are showing an unwillingness to sign older FA this offseason. If that strategy continues it'll provide more opportunity for guys viewed as marginal. There have been plenty of examples of marginal players proving scouts wrong. Justin Turner whom the Reds gave away and the Mets nontendered would be a good example. Sometimes all that is really missing is the opportunity.

In terms of talent, I'd agree. The difference to me would be that the 4A league would be largely independent and marketed as such.

By independent, it's a matter of definition. Yes, there is a league and a structure. What's independent is that the team builds its own roster, and isn't beholden to 'here's the 22 guys you get to work with but make sure Manny hits 3rd and plays CF.' So a guy signs on to play his true position, and isn't just there because the front office told him to go there because Hotshot Mulligan is the guy we really want and he needs the ABs at Pensacola.

There's value to that because the fans get to see a team that is built to play, not just go 9 innings. Managers actually get to manage. Pitchers aren't being told to throw 39 pitches, regardless of outcome. To be honest, no way would I get interested in affiliated ball because of that crap, which I understand from the top team's perspective. I am buying a ticket to watch a team play 9 innings.

The indy leagues are unique in that respect. This 4A league would literally build its own roster from players who are free agents or just want to keep playing after their release --- or are good enough to play out of Mexico when the summer gets too hot there.

Without spending a ton of explanation time on this, it would have to be places that have been identified but aren't currently in the mix. A couple are Portland and Wichita. Both would build if such a league existed, I think.

Why is it different than Triple-A? Well, these teams would have to sell their contracts to the big leagues, so it would draw players who are legitimately on the cusp. That could be determined by a process. Again, the devil is in the details.

Is it necessary? Well, no ... but it solves the problem of expanding MLB, should that chatter begin. You can build a 4A ballpark that holds 20,000 ... or even 15,000 ... (or upgrade an existing one) a whole lot cheaper than one for 500 million. If you are Quebec, does that appeal to you? As well, such a league would be cheaper and more affordable, opening it up to places like San Juan or, eventually, Havana.

Already, Triple A draws an average of about 8,000 ... not bad but also pretty lame for cities of 600,000 ... many bigger by far than Cincy. It would be hard for me to get interested in a Triple A team. The roster turnover is way too annoying. Yeah, the goal is to spot guys in the bigs, so turnover is to be expected.

Dunno, I see 4A league as an alternative to adding 2 more clunky franchises to the mix and the assorted minor league system that just panders to kids who got off the boat in Miami.

This is pretty much a tangent off the title of the thread.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I get what you're saying John. But I think the financial obstacles of competing with the MLB affiliates are more pronounced than when the Pacific Coast League was in it's heyday. It'd be tough sledding to balance the ledger sheet in today's market. Even minor league baseball has TV revenue and National Advertising deals these days.

 

[JohnU]

I get what you're saying John. But I think the financial obstacles of competing with the MLB affiliates are more pronounced than when the Pacific Coast League was in it's heyday. It'd be tough sledding to balance the ledger sheet in today's market. Even minor league baseball has TV revenue and National Advertising deals these days.

Oh, I agree that it's not technically do-able. The whale is much too large and the beach too crowded.
All the same, baseball keeps trying to repair the engine by changing the hubcaps.
But MLB has made it impossible for the creation of a third major league, even if it is 4A. The Triple A cities are required to have ballparks that cost upwards now of 60 million ... kinda locks them into agreements.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

No matter where the bar is set there's always someone left on the outside looking in. If there were a solution for the 4-A players, then the 5-A players would be clamoring what about us. Recreational leagues are the answer for young kids that don't make the cut, but when we're talking about grown men with families the priorities are different.

I'm of the opinion that minor league players acrosss the board should be better compensated. They're all building blocks of the MLB product. The difference in the talent level between the MLB player and the 4-A player is so small, but the difference in compensation so great.

The compensation structure is somewhat reversed when comparing the Majors to the minors.

Unproven draft picks that often never make it command huge bonuses while most 4-A players only make a fraction of that during their entire career.

MLB players get entry level pay for 3 years with a tiered arbitration system. In the past the lottery ticket has always been payed at the end of the ride. We'll see if the current FA trend continues and leads to salary structure changes in the next CBA.

I don't see much changing for the 4-A players. But I could see where the MLB is heading toward a potential work stoppage over pay structure.