NFC East Thread

[skinsdad62]

I would swear that the debate here was between Cousins and Smith coupled with how each one does as QB in D.C.. You guys have been debating this for some time now remember? Some of you set a "bar" for Smith based upon how well you projected this team to do had Kirk stayed, that is a fact. Now it's winning Superbowls, a "Bar" that Kirk Cousins never came close to attaining. I see.

The bar has always been about superbowls and winning . For 3,years it’s been about that

my initial post to gk's silly post had nothing to do with this team being average. you have spun this in to something else...imagine that.

Maybe you should read the posts from the last 3 years and get back to me about bars and goal posts being moved .

Get caught up on the debate and stop posting out of ignorance your own words have betrayed
You yet again

 

[Stymietee]

NO sir, the bar was set over the past three years when the ABC club constantly pushed the line that Cousins wasnt worth a long term deal because he couldnt carry the team. He couldnt come through in the clutch, and he couldnt lead the team to a playoffs win/Super Bowl.

So as far as Im concerned, thats the bar. If Smith is the better QB as some have said. He should be able to achieve these things yes??

NOPE....9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 is the "bar" Cousins set it himself. The rest of both sides of this made up issue has been and remains, BULLSHIT!! I do however, have a question for you..having fun? I know that I am.

 

[skinsdad62]

Nope the bar is winning and going to suoerbowls . We haven’t reached that .

 

[Stymietee]

The bar has always been about superbowls and winning . For 3,years it’s been about that



Maybe you should read the posts from the last 3 years and get back to me about bars and goal posts being moved .

Get caught up on the debate and stop posting out of ignorance your own words have betrayed
You yet again

Now, you're making things up! Seriously? No? Let's go back....originally all we wanted was stability at QB, and, to his credit, Kirk gave us that starting in 2015. Then there came the now infamous "prove it" year of 2016. That was followed by the even more infamous 2nd "prove it " year in 2017. I don't ever recall anyone ever, ever , ever suggesting more than a qualifying albeit elusive, playoff spot during that time. Yeah, yeah I know and expect a tremendous spin about making the playoff in order to win a SB, but if you're honest not one person anywhere one planet earth, suggested our guys would even make the playoffs, and a SB appearance during that time was just crazy talk, if it happened anywhere.

Thing is you also know the reasons why....QB who choked in key situations, no defense, barely making the playoffs with two 1,000 yard receivers, then it was one and done. Not being the best in the division, No running game, a coach who made questionable calls, NO F'ING DEFENSE, loss of both 1, 000 yard receivers, NO DEFENSE, finally mounting injuries. Did I mention no defense or running game?

I'll be fair and concede this to you....on a personal level Superbowls may very well have been what you expected and expect every year.There's nothing wrong or unusual about that, but I have been reading your posts for a number of years now and I challenge the realist in you to tell us in which of the 3 seasons (2015, 2016 or 2017) you actually saw those teams going to and winning a SB?

 

[skinsdad62]

Now, you're making things up! Seriously? No? Let's go back....originally all we wanted was stability at QB, and, to his credit, Kirk gave us that starting in 2015. Then there came the now infamous "prove it" year of 2016. That was followed by the even more infamous 2nd "prove it " year in 2017. I don't ever recall anyone ever, ever , ever suggesting more than a qualifying albeit elusive, playoff spot during that time. Yeah, yeah I know and expect a tremendous spin about making the playoff in order to win a SB, but if you're honest not one person anywhere one planet earth, suggested our guys would even make the playoffs, and a SB appearance during that time was just crazy talk, if it happened anywhere.

Thing is you also know the reasons why....QB who choked in key situations, no defense, barely making the playoffs with two 1,000 yard receivers, then it was one and done. Not being the best in the division, No running game, a coach who made questionable calls, NO F'ING DEFENSE, loss of both 1, 000 yard receivers, NO DEFENSE, finally mounting injuries. Did I mention no defense or running game?

I'll be fair and concede this to you....on a personal level Superbowls may very well have been what you expected and expect every year.There's nothing wrong or unusual about that, but I have been reading your posts for a number of years now and I challenge the realist in you to tell us in which of the 3 seasons (2015, 2016 or 2017) you actually saw those teams going to and winning a SB?

Tell me what the standards were for resigning KC ? This board gave out a ton of them with winning a playoff game being one of them . Those standards were what the abc crowd came up with and now we have a supposedly better qb .

The bar is winning superbowls and competing for them not playing 500 ball and making a playoff every other election cycle . It holds for KC and it holds for cdc

 

[Sportster 72]

Yeah you have to admit that many said Cousin's was not. capable of taking the team to the Super Bowl. I would of course argue that is a team achievement and not a QB achievement but all that said there were many who said Cousin's was not top tier and could not take the team to the SB. If you felt that way about Cousin's it is only fair that folks want to give that same measuring device to Smith.

Having said that Cousin's is a Viking and Smith is a Redskin so the only value is what the Redskins do with who they have. It is only natural if Cousin's succeeds and Smith doesn't that folks note that and vice versa.

 

[gkekoa]

Over the last two seasons, the Redskins have done two things never done before in the NFL, and there is a reason they have never been done...pure stupidity.

1- lost two 1k yard receivers in the same offseason
2- allowed a QB to play under the tag twice...never even entering serious negotiations

 

[Sharkinva]

I guess my question is..

When did we start grading QBs on a bell curve around here??

 

[Stymietee]

Tell me what the standards were for resigning KC ? This board gave out a ton of them with winning a playoff game being one of them . Those standards were what the abc crowd came up with and now we have a supposedly better qb .

The bar is winning superbowls and competing for them not playing 500 ball and making a playoff every other election cycle . It holds for KC and it holds for cdc

The ONLY "standard" for re-signing Cousins were reaching an agreement that was satisfactory to both sides. Nobody here had any influence on those negotiations whatsoever. Buying into the ABC nonsense, while fun here only mattered to those who wanted to make an issue out of something with so little relevance to rational minds.

The "bar" IS 9-7, 8-7-1. and 7-9. There's really no debate about that.

 

[Stymietee]

Yeah you have to admit that many said Cousin's was not. capable of taking the team to the Super Bowl. I would of course argue that is a team achievement and not a QB achievement but all that said there were many who said Cousin's was not top tier and could not take the team to the SB. If you felt that way about Cousin's it is only fair that folks want to give that same measuring device to Smith.

Having said that Cousin's is a Viking and Smith is a Redskin so the only value is what the Redskins do with who they have. It is only natural if Cousin's succeeds and Smith doesn't that folks note that and vice versa.

It's a social media board ole' friend, people post stupid stuff on these things all of the time. Written conversations on these things are primarily for fun and fellowship. This looks to me like a case of taking what's posted here as some measure of hard truth that actually impacts the game and or the business of football. Well, it does not. Apologies to anyone who is connected to the pro game, but for most of us, it's just entertainment and as such we have, opinions and all, no influence on the product.

I get it that some want to give the same measure to Smith that others gave to Cousins, but let's at least be honest enough to admit that whatever view folks had of Kirk, came AFTER he became the topic of conversation on these boards. Smith is now the QB here and in fairness must be judged as the starter here. After all Kirk was worse than Smith prior to becoming Gruden's full time starter. Let's see if Gruden can do for Smith what he did for Kirk, before crucifying the guy.

BTW: I totally agree with this line..." It is only natural if Cousin's succeeds and Smith doesn't that folks note that and vice versa." because it promotes a wait and see approach to where we are. Thanks!

 

[Sharkinva]

get it that some want to give the same measure to Smith that others gave to Cousins, but let's at least be honest enough to admit that whatever view folks had of Kirk, came AFTER he became the topic of conversation on these boards.

Views on Kirk and what it would take for him to be considered the answer were highly skewed and he was by and large not being judged on his performance. But more on what it would take for him to be the man in light of who he took over for. Kirk was being held by both the fan base and the ownership to the standard of what they THOUGHT they would have gotten from the guy before him.

So as KIrk was to a large degree being held to the standards they expected from that guy

1. The ability to carry the team
2. Come through in the clutch
3. Make guys around him better

Its only fitting that Smith be held to the same expectations. But its apparent that those standards are being lowered to the 7-9 to 9-7 range as the new Bar.

Dilly Dilly

 

[Sportster 72]

I agree with a large part of what you are saying shark but in a sense those people that were holding Cousin's to or saying he couldn't accomplish something like winning a Super Bowl were at least giving him backhanded credit. I don't remember anyone saying Jason Campbell or Rex Grossman wasn't good enough to take the team to a Super Bowl.

Sty I get it. A lot of this is just fodder that used to be talked about around the water cooler or sitting in a bar. Everyone has players they like and players they don't like so much. I do find in interesting that a guy who is 4th all time in Redskin stats was such was a love him or hate him kind of guy. I know hate him is strong but you get the gist.

It seems like we as people are like that now. I like this and you should too .... or vice versa. I don't want to be the guy that says "it is Cousin's or nothing." We have a new QB, I am a Redskin fan. I hope we win 25 out of 16 games. I hope Doctson breaks Art Monk's career record next season. I hope someone has 45 sacks for the team. There is always hope in a new season. Go Skins!!

 

[skinsdad62]

The ONLY "standard" for re-signing Cousins were reaching an agreement that was satisfactory to both sides. Nobody here had any influence on those negotiations whatsoever. Buying into the ABC nonsense, while fun here only mattered to those who wanted to make an issue out of something with so little relevance to rational minds.

The "bar" IS 9-7, 8-7-1. and 7-9. There's really no debate about that.

wrong , the standard was what i laid out above

 

[Stymietee]

Views on Kirk and what it would take for him to be considered the answer were highly skewed and he was by and large not being judged on his performance. But more on what it would take for him to be the man in light of who he took over for. Kirk was being held by both the fan base and the ownership to the standard of what they THOUGHT they would have gotten from the guy before him.

So as KIrk was to a large degree being held to the standards they expected from that guy

1. The ability to carry the team
2. Come through in the clutch
3. Make guys around him better

Its only fitting that Smith be held to the same expectations. But its apparent that those standards are being lowered to the 7-9 to 9-7 range as the new Bar.

Dilly Dilly

Guess who started then deeply implanted that Kirk is "hated" or "disliked" because he wasn't the other guy? I am not in the habit of calling people out, but I suggest if you have a mirror handy, look at it to find out who I'm talking about. It was foolishness then and foolishness now. You didn't like the guy, I get that, but "loving" the next one up because of the hurt rarely works out, especially, once the current love bolts for greener pastures because the family didn't like him either.

Dilly-Dilly

BTW: This is to everyone, sorry about the sporadic posts....life demands more of my attention.

 

[Stymietee]

wrong , the standard was what i laid out above

Clearly, I missed where you posted 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 above. I'll go review the posts or wait for you to remember to insert these "standards."

 

[Sharkinva]

Guess who started then deeply implanted that Kirk is "hated" or "disliked" because he wasn't the other guy? I am not in the habit of calling people out, but I suggest if you have a mirror handy, look at it to find out who I'm talking about. It was foolishness then and foolishness now. You didn't like the guy, I get that, but "loving" the next one up because of the hurt rarely works out, especially, once the current love bolts for greener pastures because the family didn't like him either.

Dilly-Dilly

BTW: This is to everyone, sorry about the sporadic posts....life demands more of my attention.

You say its foolish. But then again you were here when it all started. Go back and look at the dynamic of the trend. It started with..

Well Cousins shouldnt be starting and people had the balls to suggest it was racially motivated in benching Bob.

It then evolved into well he had a good year, BUT he will never be able to carry a team and isnt worth the money. What if he is a one year wonder.

When it turned out he wasnt a one year wonder, well he is just asking for too much and he still cant carry the team.


So I ask you. If thats not signs of hate, or at least dislike and primarily stemming from the source I sighted.... what is it then??

 

[Stymietee]

I agree with a large part of what you are saying shark but in a sense those people that were holding Cousin's to or saying he couldn't accomplish something like winning a Super Bowl were at least giving him backhanded credit. I don't remember anyone saying Jason Campbell or Rex Grossman wasn't good enough to take the team to a Super Bowl.

Sty I get it. A lot of this is just fodder that used to be talked about around the water cooler or sitting in a bar. Everyone has players they like and players they don't like so much. I do find in interesting that a guy who is 4th all time in Redskin stats was such was a love him or hate him kind of guy. I know hate him is strong but you get the gist.

It seems like we as people are like that now. I like this and you should too .... or vice versa. I don't want to be the guy that says "it is Cousin's or nothing." We have a new QB, I am a Redskin fan. I hope we win 25 out of 16 games. I hope Doctson breaks Art Monk's career record next season. I hope someone has 45 sacks for the team. There is always hope in a new season. Go Skins!!

It so reminds me of a former girlfriend that I had years ago, the constant bickering between she and some of our friends. I can still recall her insistence for me to pick a side when all along I never had an issue with any of them. Too damned much drama for me and nothing that I wanted to have to deal with over time.

Now, about Kirk, I honestly don't think that he had anything to do with creating a love/hate circumstance, that belongs to all of us here. BTW: it's not the first time just the latest, remember Kia Forbath? Same debate, smaller scale. He held records here too!

 

[Stymietee]

You say its foolish. But then again you were here when it all started. Go back and look at the dynamic of the trend. It started with..

Well Cousins shouldnt be starting and people had the balls to suggest it was racially motivated in benching Bob.

It then evolved into well he had a good year, BUT he will never be able to carry a team and isnt worth the money. What if he is a one year wonder.

When it turned out he wasnt a one year wonder, well he is just asking for too much and he still cant carry the team.


So I ask you. If thats not signs of hate, or at least dislike and primarily stemming from the source I sighted.... what is it then??

Someone's opinion, the reaction to that opinion turned it into something that it wasn't... hate.

 

[Mitziman]

The bar has always been about superbowls and winning . For 3,years it’s been about that



Maybe you should read the posts from the last 3 years and get back to me about bars and goal posts being moved .

Get caught up on the debate and stop posting out of ignorance your own words have betrayed
You yet again

Oh my, dad...like i said, take a step back, and take a deep breath...good grief my brother of burgundy, and gold..it's all good...it really is...SPORT is just entertainment, not real life.

my post have always been about facts and truth...and, have never "betrayed me"...you?...well, that's a thread topic of it's own that deserves it's own post.

 

[skinsdad62]

Oh my, dad...like i said, take a step back, and take a deep breath...good grief my brother of burgundy, and gold..it's all good...it really is...SPORT is just entertainment, not real life.

my post have always been about facts and truth...and, have never "betrayed me"...you?...well, that's a thread topic of it's own that deserves it's own post.

What facts ? You come in late to the party and talk about what’s been going on for 3 years ? Again your own words which I have quoted betray you