Kyle Seager's struggles

[wazzu31]

I believe the shift plays a role, but the K rate is the bigger concern for me. His K rate is currently at 20.7% which is considerably higher than his 17.1% career rate.

But I think that has more to do with the shift than anything to me. He is way to patient at beginning of the count looking for 1 perfect pitch to break the shift. I don't know the specific stats but I'm assuming guys K rate is always higher when they put themselves behind in the count as opposed to being more agressive. I don't know. I just think this shift has messed something up and since teams started it on him his offensive game has fallen off the map. He has gone from an up and coming fringe all star every year to a guy who should realistically be a role player.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But I think that has more to do with the shift than anything to me. He is way to patient at beginning of the count looking for 1 perfect pitch to break the shift. I don't know the specific stats but I'm assuming guys K rate is always higher when they put themselves behind in the count as opposed to being more agressive. I don't know. I just think this shift has messed something up and since teams started it on him his offensive game has fallen off the map. He has gone from an up and coming fringe all star every year to a guy who should realistically be a role player.

Here is an interesting article on it:

New Swing Brings New Struggles for Kyle Seager | Community – FanGraphs Baseball

 

[wazzu31]

Here is an interesting article on it:

New Swing Brings New Struggles for Kyle Seager | Community – FanGraphs Baseball

I just guess everything wrong with him, to me, goes back to the shift. He was an above average offensive player prior to it. Since 2016 every team is using it on him so he has had to change some things up. The changes in his stance should give him the ability to sit on pitches, but he can't take the patient approach at the same time though. He has automatically put himself in a hole when every pitcher knows he is going to look at strike one. You can't just give a pitcher that, and with an 0-2 count there isn't a ton of options besides rolling over on a pitch that isn't inside. Much like Felix, Seager needs a mental break but is paid way too much money and has no options for the team to give him the time he needs ..IMO

 

[SeattleCoug]

Just comparing him to other 3rd baseman. Their are 19 of them who qualify based on ABS. Seagars ranks in some categories.

WAR: 14th
Owar: 17th
WRC+: 17th
wOBA: 19th
Batting Average: 19th
OPS: 17th
BB%: 19th

 

[Duders]

Just comparing him to other 3rd baseman. Their are 19 of them who qualify based on ABS. Seagars ranks in some categories.

WAR: 14th
Owar: 17th
WRC+: 17th
wOBA: 19th
Batting Average: 19th
OPS: 17th
BB%: 19th

Those stats pretty much seal for me with Seager. What a waste of money. Was it Dipoto who signed Seager to that contract?

 

[Msfann]

"This is a great day for the Seattle Mariners, our fans and the Seager family. As one of our homegrown players it is nice to know that he will remain with us for at least seven more seasons," said Zduriencik. "Kyle has taken a step forward each season since joining the organization in 2009"

Jack was right, he was improving every year slightly at the plate. But as soon as he got paid things flatlined.

I remember at the time thinking it was dumb to extend him like that.

 

[SeattleCoug]

"This is a great day for the Seattle Mariners, our fans and the Seager family. As one of our homegrown players it is nice to know that he will remain with us for at least seven more seasons," said Zduriencik. "Kyle has taken a step forward each season since joining the organization in 2009"

Jack was right, he was improving every year slightly at the plate. But as soon as he got paid things flatlined.

I remember at the time thinking it was dumb to extend him like that.

I didn't have any problem extending him. He was performing just fine in his 4th season and had been averaging over 4 WAR a year which is solid. That's what a normal franchise does. Drafts a player, develops a player and rewards the player with a contract. This is just something that doesn't happen in Mariner land because no one outside of Felix and Seagar in recent memory has warranted a contract. I just didn't really like the structure of the contract or the length.

But I mean even in 2016 he had a great year up until the last few weeks in September and has just looked lost ever since.

 

[wazzu31]

I didn't have any problem extending him. He was performing just fine in his 4th season and had been averaging over 4 WAR a year which is solid. That's what a normal franchise does. Drafts a player, develops a player and rewards the player with a contract. This is just something that doesn't happen in Mariner land because no one outside of Felix and Seagar in recent memory has warranted a contract. I just didn't really like the structure of the contract or the length.

But I mean even in 2016 he had a great year up until the last few weeks in September and has just looked lost ever since.

I thought at the time it was a steal of a deal extending him. Baseball is different now than it was. With how salaries were going up $18 million a year wasn't bad at all especially for a guys first contract. His trajectory was on the way up heading into his prime. I really don't blame Jack Z at all for it. It's not like it was a Cano contract where they were paying for the first half then praying they could squeeze production at the back end.

I just don't understand when a dude is struggling like him with the shift, swallow your pride and lay down a bunt and get on base. I can understand Harper not wanting to because he wants that monster deal but Seager already got his. It's some John Smoltz has been saying for years, it gets you on base and gets in the pitchers head. Kind of like Dyson bunting last year to break up Verlander's perfect game, Verlander melted down from that point on.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I just don't understand when a dude is struggling like him with the shift, swallow your pride and lay down a bunt and get on base. I can understand Harper not wanting to because he wants that monster deal but Seager already got his. It's some John Smoltz has been saying for years, it gets you on base and gets in the pitchers head. Kind of like Dyson bunting last year to break up Verlander's perfect game, Verlander melted down from that point on.

Clearly the shift has got in his head and he hasn't figured out how to combat that. I wouldn't hate if he just turned into 15 HR guy that hit more singles instead of 25-30 HR guy that cant even sniff a .290 OBP. That swing needs to be tweaked somehow because the shift isn't going away. I'm not a swing expert but it just seems very long and loopy. Makes it hard to hit the ball the other way with any conviction it would seems

 

[NWinAZ]

Clearly the shift has got in his head and he hasn't figured out how to combat that. I wouldn't hate if he just turned into 15 HR guy that hit more singles instead of 25-30 HR guy that cant even sniff a .290 OBP. That swing needs to be tweaked somehow because the shift isn't going away. I'm not a swing expert but it just seems very long and loopy. Makes it hard to hit the ball the other way with any conviction it would seems

The bad news...he just adjusted his swing a couple weeks back.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I just guess everything wrong with him, to me, goes back to the shift. He was an above average offensive player prior to it. Since 2016 every team is using it on him so he has had to change some things up. The changes in his stance should give him the ability to sit on pitches, but he can't take the patient approach at the same time though. He has automatically put himself in a hole when every pitcher knows he is going to look at strike one. You can't just give a pitcher that, and with an 0-2 count there isn't a ton of options besides rolling over on a pitch that isn't inside. Much like Felix, Seager needs a mental break but is paid way too much money and has no options for the team to give him the time he needs ..IMO

I agree. I'm quite concerned with his current production, but unlike Felix, Seager has actually been making adjustments. I think it might just find some time to keep adjusting until you find that right spot.

Love Felix for everything he has given this franchise, but his stubbornness has made me feel zero sympathy for him being sent to the bullpen. At least Seager is trying new stuff.

Maybe now Felix will realize that he can't just rely on "stuff" anymore. I don't have high hopes for him, but a similar situation is C.C. Sabathia. Sabathia used to rely on pure talent, then as that started diminishing, he made the adjustments necessary to be a solid starter.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The bad news...he just adjusted his swing a couple weeks back.

Hopefully he finds something that works.

 

[NWinAZ]

Hopefully he finds something that works.

Like a change of scenery?

 

[seahawksfan234]

Like a change of scenery?

Can only hope for so much.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Like a change of scenery?

I'd say he's a great fit for the Yankees with that short porch in right, but they already have good young players at 3B, SS and 2B.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'd say he's a great fit for the Yankees with that short porch in right, but they already have good young players at 3B, SS and 2B.

They are looking for a 1B so maybe he can play there?

 

[seahawksfan234]

They are looking for a 1B so maybe he can play there?

I was thinking about that. Even at his abysmal BA/OBP right now he could easily hit 35+ HRs a year in that stadium.

 

[PolarVortex]

Seager's batting average has never been all that great. The .247 last year was only 10 points below his career average at the time. His drop off this year is, imo, more due to the shift than it is to declining skills.He had at least 15 line drives to right, that would have been hits in previous years, that are outfield groundouts now. That's the diff between his current .225-.230 BA and what would be his career norm.

The thing that disappoints me the most about Seager is that he never really built upon his success of that first full season. He's been mostly the same player for 7 years now despite entering his prime years. We had an expectation of growth and it never came.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Seager's batting has never been all that great. The .247 last year was only 10 points below his career average at the time. His drop off this year is, imo, mote due to the shift than it is to declining skills. If he has 15 line drives to right, that would have been hits in previous years, that are outfield groundouts now, his BA would be at career average.

The thing that disappoints me the most about Seager is that he never really built upon his success of that first full season. He's been mostly the same player for 7 years now despite entering his prime years. We had an expectation of growth and it never came.

I think we saw growth, it was just marginal and quite incremental on a year-by-year basis. Additionally, I do think he improved substantially over the years on the defensive side. His first two seasons he graded out negatively as a defender, and he peaked offensively and defensively in 2016.

It's just unfortunate that it would appear he likely hit his peak in 2016.

 

[Anointed One]

I'd say he's a great fit for the Yankees with that short porch in right, but they already have good young players at 3B, SS and 2B.

He's have to make contact still, no?