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Kings are in the 2018 playoffs

Fox4Kings

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I think most of us wanted Vegas in the first round, I know I did.
 

PuckinUgly57

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This was the worst SCF I could have hoped for - I absolutely cannot stand the Cap and gradually Vegas got on my nerves in 2 months after feeling pretty happy about them the rest of the season.

I think this is a perfect time for the NHLPA to go on strike so no Cup winner exists for 2018.

=)~~
 

LoCal Kings

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Vegas success = in the short term, good hype for NHL. In the long term, I think it will be bad. Risk alienating fan bases that have watched their teams struggling year after year to build a winner. Only to see the expansion team swoop in and ride a wave to the finals and maybe a Cup.

I take nothing away from the players, coaches, management. Those folks have definitely earned it. But its the moderate-level fans (not the die-hard fans) around the league that may sour a bit on the NHL as a whole.

Question: if Vegas wins, does Bettman get cheered or booed during the Cup presentation?!?!? Probably booed because its a copy-cat league all the way down to the fans. But all things considered, one would think those Vegas fans should cheer loud for Bettman.
 

Fox4Kings

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What do Kings do on defense? We've been feeling a trade coming for quite a while, I think they really need to pull the trigger. We seem pretty stacked and deep on D, would be great to get a nice forward in return. I know this has been talked about through this thread but assuming no trade, what do the Kings do? They will have some NHL caliber players sitting on the bench or playing in the AHL:

Drew Doughty - Obviously our #1
Alec Martinez - Solid top 4 guy
Jake Muzzin - Solid top 4 guy
Dion Phaneuf - Solid top 4 guy
Oscar Fantenberg - Kings just re-signed him to another 1 year deal. I was impressed throughout the season and I thought was stellar in the playoffs, especially game 2.
Derek Forbort - Had a fantastic season and a great partner with Drew.
Paul Ladue - I loved his play. Solid defender with a great shot, this is a guy who could see play top minutes on the Power Play at some point. For now I'd love to see him on the second power play unit. A lot of upside.
Daniel Brickley - Highly touted prospect, you wouldn't think he would sign with the Kings without a good opportunity to crack the starting lineup.
Christian Folin - Is a decent #6 guy, but being a UFA and with the other options, I don't see Kings re-signing him.
Kurtis Macdermid - Big guy you love having on the team, probably his skill compared to the other guys listed makes him the odd guy out, but I could see him being an NHL starter on a team.
Kevin Gravel - Showed signs of being an NHL starter. Is a RFA, will be interesting to see what happens there.
Kale Clague - Perhaps our top rated defensive prospect, maybe they keep him down in the minors another year?

That's a pretty hefty list, let's assume Folin and Macdermid are gone, that's 10 solid options on defense. Maybe I am being a homer and just too high on some of these guys.
 

PuckinUgly57

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I think the bigger test will be next year. Yes, the rules were changed for Vegas compared to any other team post-1967 Expansion but I will give credit to McPhee for drafting the players he did and more so to the players for doing their part. They have had one hell of a season and more power to them.

Therein lies the issue too - the expectation has been set so high, we all know this is going to come crashing down to earth as early a 5 months from now. The team will look different in October, and it should be interesting to see how the community reacts when they don't do what they did this year, hit some bad skids, players don't produce, etc. Usual cycle with Expansion Teams the first 3 years whether they are successful or not the first year.

They have a ton of guys who are R/UFA, big decisions lie ahead. They had the 24th lowest payroll this season some of their key players need contracts (Karlsson, Neal, Miller, Theodore) so he is going to have to dish out some money or watch this team walk away.

Their two biggest issues will be Colin Miller (thanks Dumbo!) and Karlsson, both are RFAs with Arbitration Rights. Their MQOs won't be much, $1 million each but that's only to retain their rights exclusively and negotiate as you know. The interesting thing here is that Vegas does not have a 1st (Detroit, Tatar - still don't understand that one), 3rd (Minnesota, Tuch) or 4th (Florida - Smith) round pick this summer so they will have to be active to get some of those picks back. Of course I expect that to change - they may move some guys to recoup those picks - but 1 pick in the first 124 picks as it stands, no bueno.

Karlsson is the real question mark here, he of 43 goals in 2017-18 but 18 combined between 2014-2017. He screams of one year wonder, and we have seen this all too often (Cheechoo, Clarkson, Gionta - and this is just in the salary cap era) - huge year, contract year, gets big deal, never does it again, major financial headache within 2 years.

I think even McPhee senses that which is why the other would-be free agent on their top line (Marchessault) was signed to a 6 year/$30 million deal in January (granted he would have been a GIII and you can sign your own GIIIs after Jan 1 of the contract year) and Smith is already under contract for another 4 years at $5 million. I don't think any smart GM in the league will bite on him for a premium in any deal considering his lack of historic production so McPhee has to pony up or sell his value extremely well.

He also has arbitration rights, and 40+ goal scorers make anywhere between $7-10 million depending on when they signed their deals. There is a lot of information that can be used in an arbitration meeting such as overall performance (including past seasons - this is where he will have a problem), length of service with the team and how long in the league, the player's contribution to the overall success of his team.

He will shoot for the moon like in 2006-07 when Cammalleri hit 80 points for the first time (34G/46A) and asked for $6 million a season, the Kings countered with $2.6 million. The arbitrator awarded him 2 years/$6.7 million ($3.1 million, $3.5 million). He hit 80+ points one more time 2 years later and then never again but he signed 2 huge deals afterwards, 5 years/$30 million with the Habs in 2009 and 5 years/$25 million with NJ (2014) which he was bought out of and ended up in LA.

Miller is a solid defender, I was concerned when the Kings traded him in the Lucic deal and he has proven himself to be a good player both in Boston and Vegas. He will be due a big raise from the $1 million he made on his last deal, and he is 26 as well so he can't really be bridged because of UFA status coming up. Another it's time to pay me contract and he also has arbitration rights but a more solid body of work than Karlsson does. I could easily see him approaching $4.5 million on a multiyear deal.

Overall should be interesting to see what moves they make because they will not be able to replicate this roster at the price point they got it at next year. That 24th rank included 3 buried contracts in Grabovski, Stoner and Clarkson totaling $10.425 million so imagine how much lower it would have been without those - they would have been a hair under $3 million from the floor ($55.4 million) in that case.

Bettman always gets booed, it's tradition no matter who wins the Cup.
 

PuckinUgly57

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What do Kings do on defense? We've been feeling a trade coming for quite a while, I think they really need to pull the trigger. We seem pretty stacked and deep on D, would be great to get a nice forward in return. I know this has been talked about through this thread but assuming no trade, what do the Kings do? They will have some NHL caliber players sitting on the bench or playing in the AHL:

Drew Doughty - Obviously our #1
Alec Martinez - Solid top 4 guy
Jake Muzzin - Solid top 4 guy
Dion Phaneuf - Solid top 4 guy
Oscar Fantenberg - Kings just re-signed him to another 1 year deal. I was impressed throughout the season and I thought was stellar in the playoffs, especially game 2.
Derek Forbort - Had a fantastic season and a great partner with Drew.
Paul Ladue - I loved his play. Solid defender with a great shot, this is a guy who could see play top minutes on the Power Play at some point. For now I'd love to see him on the second power play unit. A lot of upside.
Daniel Brickley - Highly touted prospect, you wouldn't think he would sign with the Kings without a good opportunity to crack the starting lineup.
Christian Folin - Is a decent #6 guy, but being a UFA and with the other options, I don't see Kings re-signing him.
Kurtis Macdermid - Big guy you love having on the team, probably his skill compared to the other guys listed makes him the odd guy out, but I could see him being an NHL starter on a team.
Kevin Gravel - Showed signs of being an NHL starter. Is a RFA, will be interesting to see what happens there.
Kale Clague - Perhaps our top rated defensive prospect, maybe they keep him down in the minors another year?

That's a pretty hefty list, let's assume Folin and Macdermid are gone, that's 10 solid options on defense. Maybe I am being a homer and just too high on some of these guys.

Defense is where the Kings will flip for offensive help, it's their area of strength. Your first 7 guys, that is what you are looking at on Opening Night barring any moves IMO. Fantenberg, LaDue and possibly Folin will be fighting for 2 spots (6-7).

Fantenberg was just resigned and is not Waivers Exempt, so his 1 year deal was given anticipating him to be on the Kings roster in October. That leaves 1 spot open for the 7 guys remaining you mentioned, it'll be tough competition come TC. My money is on LaDue taking the 7 spot and gradually getting more ice time as the season goes along or being inserted in games where more mobility and offense may be needed from the back end.

I think Folin will sign elsewhere on a multiyear deal in the $2.5-3 million range. I think he played a solid role for LA and was a physical presence, a RH shot, all the stuff we like but finances will play a role. He's earned a raise from the $850,000 he made but I don't think LA can pay that type of deal.

MacDermid will be in Ontario or another NHL team/minors and Brickley and Clague should probably spend the year in Ontario. Clague will be 20 next month and will be considered an Overage Junior (20+ when the CHL season starts) and CHL teams only allow 3 Overage Juniors per team. I haven't looked at his junior team so I don't know their ages but highly unlikely he goes back there and there is no reason to rush him to LA with the top 6 locked down.

Gravel is really the interesting one, he will actually be a GVI UFA (25+ years old, 3+ professional seasons of 1 game or more per season in his case because of his age and less than 80 totals NHL games experience) and not an RFA. Unless something drastic happens to his game, I can't see him back in LA. He's cheap, $650,000, so he should be a low risk/high reward type signing somewhere this season.

He's a great story with the Crohn's Disease and coming back to play in the league story but he has reached that point where he hasn't established himself as an NHL regular but there are younger players pushing him as well. It also doesn't help that the top 6 is essentially set so he has a very large challenge ahead of him in camp, that's even if the Kings invite him.
 
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This is where Vegas is just too hard to beat right now. Their 4th line scored 3 goals in the 3rd period last night (Granted, one was an empty netter).

upload_2018-5-29_11-49-30.png
 
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I know I've said it before, but I would move Muzzin. I don't want to move Muzzin just to move Muzzin, but because I think he has real value league-wide. His return will be nice. The prospect of him being up for a new contract in year seriously terrifies me (Increase salary/locked up for another 5-6 years? Who knows?).
 
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I think the bigger test will be next year. Yes, the rules were changed for Vegas compared to any other team post-1967 Expansion but I will give credit to McPhee for drafting the players he did and more so to the players for doing their part. They have had one hell of a season and more power to them.


Their two biggest issues will be Colin Miller (thanks Dumbo!)

That Lucic trade really was the worst trade ever. Lucic for Martin Jones, 1st, and Colin Miller. Puck-moving defenseman we actually needed, 1st pick lost in a long line of not having a 1st round pick, and then Martin Jones beating LA in 5 games that very year (and helping SJ to their first Stanley Cup Final in their history). Gaaaaawd.

I will say, that I acknowledge what Lombardi tried to do. He got Boston to retain Lucic's salary, so he iced a team that was like $4mil OVER the cap (Ala, how Pittsburgh is able to have Kessel because Toronto is still retaining some of his salary). Only difference is, Kessel is actually able to produce, and that retention was for multiple years, not a one and done.

Still, what an awful trade for LA.
 

Psych3man

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I think the Kings are going to push hard to get Voynov back.
Puck, if he does come back, are the Kings able to negotiate a new contract or would they have to pay him what he was making his last contracted year?
 

PuckinUgly57

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This is where Vegas is just too hard to beat right now. Their 4th line scored 3 goals in the 3rd period last night (Granted, one shouldn't have counted because a penalty should have been assessed and one was an empty netter).

View attachment 180059

Fixed that for you.

=)~~

The bold I am referring to I'm sure everyone has read, that Ryan Reaves should have been called for a cross check moments before scoring the tying goal. Dude flat out decks Carlson within eyesight of the ref, gets the puck now that he's uncontested and roofs it.

Instead of the Capitals getting a PP and still leading 4-3 and potentially going up 5-3 the game is now tied 4-4 and that play shifted the game. Who knows, if the Caps lock it down with a PP goal and nothing else happens (although highly unlikely, this was a wide open game) that second Nosek EN goal potentially doesn't happen either. It was a disgrace of a non call, I actually agree with Mike Milbury for once.

And yes, I also think Wilson's hit was a late hit but he didn't target anyone's head so the interference or whatever was the right call. The issue I have there is there was no initial call (there should have been) but the refs convene when the whistle blows during the post-hit skirmish and decide to call one. Where was this on the Reaves non call resulting in a goal?

Vegas has been pulling all kinds of stick work, picks, dirty little plays and not getting called for them all POs long so I think the Caps said OK, we will police ourselves in that case and Wilson and Ovechkin started smashing guys. I haven't seen this but I read on a Cap fansite that moments before Marchessault got dropped he butt ended Ovechkin. If true, makes sense why Wilson sent him into next week.

An example of their stick work, Eller has a wide open net and clear cut gets slashed by McNabb - the same slashing they harped on all season long assessing penalties left and right - but no penalty. That would have tied the game 5-5.

The Capitals seem to be the most equipped team to give Vegas problems with their equivalent skill and speed so defense, goaltending and special teams will need to improve if they want to get back into this series.

Really problematic though that they are down 1-0 because of things like refs. I'm not claiming conspiracy, just call it fair both ways.
 

PuckinUgly57

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That Lucic trade really was the worst trade ever. Lucic for Martin Jones, 1st, and Colin Miller. Puck-moving defenseman we actually needed, 1st pick lost in a long line of not having a 1st round pick, and then Martin Jones beating LA in 5 games that very year (and helping SJ to their first Stanley Cup Final in their history). Gaaaaawd.

I will say, that I acknowledge what Lombardi tried to do. He got Boston to retain Lucic's salary, so he iced a team that was like $4mil OVER the cap (Ala, how Pittsburgh is able to have Kessel because Toronto is still retaining some of his salary). Only difference is, Kessel is actually able to produce, and that retention was for multiple years, not a one and done.

Still, what an awful trade for LA.

I think being the first team in almost 10 years to miss the POs the season after winning the Cup (2006-07, Hurricanes) really embarrassed Dumbo, not to mention Dumbo built two Cup winners in the mold of guys like Lucic and he felt he would complement the team here well (he did). He was well liked, a good team guy, liked LA and I think LA got their money's worth too (20G/35A, and of those 55 points only 8 came on the PP including 2 goals. Lucic was a ES beast for LA). It's too bad they couldn't afford to keep him but at the money and term he got, the Kings dodged a bullet big time. Edmonton is in serious financial trouble because of the large contracts including his.

My .02 on the deal, looking in retrospect and connecting the dots:

1. The Kings were in cap hell but Schenn, Lecavalier and Versteeg were coming off the books as UFAs/retirement. With other smaller moves they would have gained some space, creating about $3.5-3.75 million to afford a decent player. If he came at full boat at $6 million, LA can't do that deal but Boston retained $2.75 million of the deal so LA's hit was $3.25 million. At that price point, Dumbo got a T6 winger at a substantial discount.

2. I think Dumbo already decided to buy out Richards that summer (they waived him in January, no takers, played in Ontario for a month or so and was recalled) because his production and play had dropped and he had already passed on two chances (2013, 2014) to buy him out without any penalties, his loyalty doing him in again. With Richards gone you now need a forward having created a hole so I feel Dumbo was going to make a move, Lucic or not.

Lucic was traded for on 6/15/15 and Richards was arrested on 6/17/15 so to me the plan was acquire a player, buyout Richards and use his cap savings towards that forward. It's interesting to note that the Cup was won on 6/15/15, and the Buyout Period opens up either on 6/15 or 48 hours after the Finals are over every year, whichever date is later. So the same day the Buyout Period opens up, Richards also gets arrested.

No matter how other GMs and fans feel about it, Dumbo didn't finagle anything at all - like any contract, Richards has to adhere to what's laid out in there and he breached his contract. You can get fired at any time for breaching a contract in your own workplace, this was no different. Dumbo was given a major stroke of luck because a contract termination/settlement/recapture penalties would be much less than a straight up buyout and he used that circumstance - I see nothing wrong with it because he was well within his rights to do so.

3. I would think Miller and the 1st would have been enough to land Lucic, who Boston was not going to keep at the end of his deal. The key here is the $2.75 million they retained, and Jones was the price to pay for that. I smelled something funny right off the get go because they had Rask signed long term and playing well and a revolving door of backups the last 4-5 years. What I wasn't expecting was Boston flipping him to SJ.

Dumbo wanted to keep him out of the WC which is why he was shipped to the EC and why he was part of the deal with the salary retention of Lucic. Hats off to Sweeney for orchestrating that - if a clown like me knows Jones is not part of the picture in Boston, Dumbo surely knew. So either a) he was completely played by Sweeney, which I don't buy or b) he really didn't think Jones would be shipped off, which is stupid.

Either way, not a good look. The Bruins had the 13th, 14th and 15th overall picks in the 2015 draft (13th - LA, 14th - Calgary from the Hamilton deal, 15th - Boston's pick) and picked D Jakub Zboril with LA's pick. He is a bit of a project and has been in Providence the last few years and may be on the move with other promising defenders in the system.

Overall I too understand why Dumbo did it - the Kings were still an elite team and had a big window to win - but yes, it did cost them a lot. I don't think it was awful, but it was a large over payment.
 

PuckinUgly57

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I think the Kings are going to push hard to get Voynov back.
Puck, if he does come back, are the Kings able to negotiate a new contract or would they have to pay him what he was making his last contracted year?

I would assume that he would be paid his $4.167 million (hit, actual salary would be $5.5 million) but I have not seen any precedence of a terminated contract being reinstated. Even if they did, post 2005 CBA contracts cannot be renegotiated so that makes me believe the contract a player is/was under would stand.

The 2018-19 season is the last on the 6 year/$25 million deal he signed in 2013, and based on what I am reading regarding legalities I don't think he will be in the NHL any time soon. I wouldn't be surprised to see his contract - and thus the Kings' rights - expire before he even sets foot on NHL ice.

The Kings own his rights until June 30, 2019 and I think the Kings are trying to get him reinstated but to trade him. They have gone on record saying they have no interest in having him on the team so I'm guessing this is a case of get something for a valuable asset before time runs out.

Few articles floating around:

NHL plays waiting game on Slava Voynov reinstatement

Daly: 'Legal hurdles' in way of Voynov return - Article - TSN
 
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Fixed that for you.

=)~~

The bold I am referring to I'm sure everyone has read, that Ryan Reaves should have been called for a cross check moments before scoring the tying goal. Dude flat out decks Carlson within eyesight of the ref, gets the puck now that he's uncontested and roofs it.

Instead of the Capitals getting a PP and still leading 4-3 and potentially going up 5-3 the game is now tied 4-4 and that play shifted the game. Who knows, if the Caps lock it down with a PP goal and nothing else happens (although highly unlikely, this was a wide open game) that second Nosek EN goal potentially doesn't happen either. It was a disgrace of a non call, I actually agree with Mike Milbury for once.

And yes, I also think Wilson's hit was a late hit but he didn't target anyone's head so the interference or whatever was the right call. The issue I have there is there was no initial call (there should have been) but the refs convene when the whistle blows during the post-hit skirmish and decide to call one. Where was this on the Reaves non call resulting in a goal?

Vegas has been pulling all kinds of stick work, picks, dirty little plays and not getting called for them all POs long so I think the Caps said OK, we will police ourselves in that case and Wilson and Ovechkin started smashing guys. I haven't seen this but I read on a Cap fansite that moments before Marchessault got dropped he butt ended Ovechkin. If true, makes sense why Wilson sent him into next week.

An example of their stick work, Eller has a wide open net and clear cut gets slashed by McNabb - the same slashing they harped on all season long assessing penalties left and right - but no penalty. That would have tied the game 5-5.

The Capitals seem to be the most equipped team to give Vegas problems with their equivalent skill and speed so defense, goaltending and special teams will need to improve if they want to get back into this series.

Really problematic though that they are down 1-0 because of things like refs. I'm not claiming conspiracy, just call it fair both ways.

I know what you mean on the call. Vegas has gotten a lot of benefits. They flop and embellish a lot, and they get away with a lot of extracurricular stuff as well. Add to that, their PP is very good, and you can feel why they're frustrating.

Last night, Colin Miller went down really easy on the TJ Oshie hit, which led to another Vegas goal (Making it 3-2). Neil getting hit in the face with his own glove.

But I guess my point is even having one goal from your 4th line is huge (Discounting the other 2 they had), and it really is their bottom 6 depth that has made them so effective. Empty net goal aside, the Knights had their 4th line out there to close out the game, which just wouldn't be the case for a lot of teams (*Cough* Kings *Cough*).
 

PuckinUgly57

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I know I've said it before, but I would move Muzzin. I don't want to move Muzzin just to move Muzzin, but because I think he has real value league-wide. His return will be nice. The prospect of him being up for a new contract in year seriously terrifies me (Increase salary/locked up for another 5-6 years? Who knows?).

Muzzin would be my pick too for various reasons but also because you're right, he will be due a contract in 2 years and will be 31 when this contract expires. Martinez is still under contract for 1 more year after Muzzin's expires, and he is a serviceable two way guy too but Muzzin will need to be dealt with first and is slightly younger so I say cash in on him. I'm not a fan as you guys clearly know but I also try to be fair; he played his best professional hockey this season after an atrocious 2016-17 and I don't know if he will meet that again in 2018-19.

Defense is an area of strength for LA so deal from that position and flip it into offense much like Blake turned a worn down Gaborik into a T4 defender in Phaneuf. The Kings need a legitimate T6 LW, preferably T3 but as of right now they have the least amount of cap space of any team ($4.2 million) going into this summer and the cap tentatively at $75 million but with Vegas boosting revenue Daly said it could go up as much as between $3-7 million ($78-82 million) which obviously gives the Kings (and others) more money to play with.

The draft is only 3 weeks away, there will be movement in the next few weeks. I assume Blake is already working the phones but I don't expect him to move picks since the system is so bare from the win now days.

On the UFA front there are really only 2 big names for forwards, Tavares and van Riemsdyk, neither of whom are realistic shots in LA without some major money movement. The rest are second tier guys like James Neal, Perron, etc. On the RFA front Mark Stone of Ottawa is due and also has arbitration rights so it should be interesting to see what happens there considering the turmoil in Ottawa and Melnyk essentially saying we are going into rebuild (read as cheap) so he could be on the move but will cost some.

On the defense front John Carlson is the big name and then not much else (hey, JMFJ is available!) and he is going to cash in whether it's Washington or elsewhere an no big names for goalies. The Caps will have some space available so I don't see him leaving.

There are some interesting developments going on around the league, such as Kessel possibly being on the move because of rifts between he and Sullivan regarding his deployment and ice time. He just put up 92 points (34 goals) but most of that was done while Maklin and Crosby were injured or hadn't hit full flight yet but only had 1 goals in their PO run while playing injured most of the season.

He can still light it up but he has an $8 million cap hit ($1.2 million on TO's book for retention so really $6.8 million for Pittsburgh), is 30 and has 4 more years lert on his 8 year/$64 million deal signed by TO. He's a sniper but it's a red flag that in Boston, TO and now Pittsburgh (even with 2 Cups) he is having issues with management again. The Kings cannot afford him or his issues but something to keep an eye on.

It's not a deep market for UFAs this season so it'll be trades for all teams involving current roster players, prospects and future draft picks.
 

PuckinUgly57

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I know what you mean on the call. Vegas has gotten a lot of benefits. They flop and embellish a lot, and they get away with a lot of extracurricular stuff as well. Add to that, their PP is very good, and you can feel why they're frustrating.

Last night, Colin Miller went down really easy on the TJ Oshie hit, which led to another Vegas goal (Making it 3-2). Neil getting hit in the face with his own glove.

But I guess my point is even having one goal from your 4th line is huge (Discounting the other 2 they had), and it really is their bottom 6 depth that has made them so effective. Empty net goal aside, the Knights had their 4th line out there to close out the game, which just wouldn't be the case for a lot of teams (*Cough* Kings *Cough*).

I agree, the Kings B6 is awful. They aren't fast, they aren't skilled, they aren't versatile for the most part. I think Amadio learned quite a bit this season and IMO has the skills and mindset to be a long term 3C solution but apart from him and Lewis really, not much else - Andreoff, Mitchell, Clifford, etc. don't bring much anymore.

The B6 was stronger in the Cup years but as the T6 needed contracts that money was moved there and the B6 is bare bones guys except for Lewis really. The Kings could stand to upgrade here, it was impressive having Kopitar, Richards/Carter, Stoll and Lewis as the centers on the Cup teams. That is some serious depth and needed to go far. and it slotted guys on all lines exactly where they needed to be.

And I agree, Miller went down like the boxer in Snake Eyes when Oshie hit him, it was pathetic. I also think Miller could have been called for a board on Oshie right before that leading up to the retaliation but Game 2 was much better officiated and it showed. Tuch cross checking Carlson, looking like bitter beer face going to the box and then Vegas getting scored on the PP was gold.
 
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