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Good/great forgotten players of yesteryear

broncosmitty

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Besides being a big fat slob, McLain has the proud distinction of being jailed in three different decades.....Pretty impressive....
I hate that fat fuck.


Don't even get me started. Still won't accept responsibility for destroying lives.
 

Pure Steel

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Worse than that ... A Doughnut Shop

2113.jpg
Of course there's one missing from the tray......
 

Loneranger

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It's a useless point because had he been born 25 years ago, he would've come up differently and trained differently, hence he may not have been conditioned to throw 250+ innings annually.
that's ridiculous. So today these candy asses are "conditioned" to throw 175 inn ? Athletes in Kaat's day weren't even close to the condition of these guys today. For crissakes in the off season those guys used to sell fuckin cars and insurance! All this bullshit these clowns have available today and we want to award iron man status to ONE guy who can throw 200 inn! Kaat threw OVER 300 inn 3 times! A 250 inn yr was considered light work in his day.
 

navamind

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It's a useless point because had he been born 25 years ago, he would've come up differently and trained differently, hence he may not have been conditioned to throw 250+ innings annually.

And besides, he only finished in the top 10 in IP 6 six times. That's not to say his longevity wasn't impressive.
 

StanMarsh51

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that's ridiculous. So today these candy asses are "conditioned" to throw 175 inn ? Athletes in Kaat's day weren't even close to the condition of these guys today. For crissakes in the off season those guys used to sell fuckin cars and insurance! All this bullshit these clowns have available today and we want to award iron man status to ONE guy who can throw 200 inn! Kaat threw OVER 300 inn 3 times! A 250 inn yr was considered light work in his day.


Today's pitchers are conditioned to throw harder than Kaat did regularly...there's a tradeoff between that you're missing.

You're acting like everybody pre-1970 threw 95 mph regularly while pitching 300 innings.....that's not the reality.



The average fastball speed in the past 15 years has increased from about 88.5 to almost 92. How much lower do you think that number was in Kaat's day?


atlas_S1-DccGC@2x.png
 
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navamind

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Luke Appling. Career line of .310/.399/.398 and a 113 OPS+ (for reference, Ripken had a 112 OPS+ and Jeter's was 115) with 10254 PA as a shortstop. Batted .388/.474/.508 in 1936. His 74.4 WAR ranks 50th all-time among position players.

Ripken's another one I feel is pretty underappreciated. It seems like a lot of people think he's in solely because of the streak, but he rates as one of the greatest defensive shortstops of all-time per dWAR and his 112 OPS+ is very good for a middle infielder. Also had two of the greatest seasons ever by a shortstop (1984 and 1991). 1991 was his best offensive season as he hit .323/.374/.566 (162 OPS+) and was worth a whopping 11.5 WAR.
 

navamind

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Bret Boone had a few monster seasons and an otherwise pedestrian career.

2001: .331/.372/.578, 153 OPS+, 37 home runs, 77 extra base hits, 141 RBI's, 8.8 WAR
2003: .294/.366/.535, 140 OPS+, 35 home runs, 75 extra base hits, 117 RBI's, 5.9 WAR

He lso had a 4.2 WAR season in 2002. 18.9 WAR over that three year span... he finished with 22.8 overall.
 

Pure Steel

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Jeff Reardon.....
 

Loneranger

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Today's pitchers are conditioned to throw harder than Kaat did regularly...there's a tradeoff between that you're missing.

You're acting like everybody pre-1970 threw 95 mph regularly while pitching 300 innings.....that's not the reality.



The average fastball speed in the past 15 years has increased from about 88.5 to almost 92. How much lower do you think that number was in Kaat's day?


atlas_S1-DccGC@2x.png
you obviously weren't around in Kaat's day. I was and can tell you with certainty they threw as hard 30 yrs ago as they do today. I played pro ball in the early 80's and can tell you I NEVER faced a guy who threw under 90 not once. Trying to claim these guys can be "trained" to throw 95 is preposterous. If you knew anything about it you would know it's impossible. A guy can either throw in the 90's or he can't. There is no "training" for it. Further, they are NOT trained to throw in the 90's for 5inn. Granted the expectations of starters today are lower than at anytime in baseball history. That has nothing to do with training.
 

StanMarsh51

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you obviously weren't around in Kaat's day. I was and can tell you with certainty they threw as hard 30 yrs ago as they do today. I played pro ball in the early 80's and can tell you I NEVER faced a guy who threw under 90 not once. Trying to claim these guys can be "trained" to throw 95 is preposterous. If you knew anything about it you would know it's impossible. A guy can either throw in the 90's or he can't. There is no "training" for it. Further, they are NOT trained to throw in the 90's for 5inn. Granted the expectations of starters today are lower than at anytime in baseball history. That has nothing to do with training.


Prove it... merely saying "I remember that they threw just as hard" isn't proof.

Show me that the average fastball in Kaat's day was as fast as today's 92mph.
 

cerealboi

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Bret Boone had a few monster seasons and an otherwise pedestrian career.

2001: .331/.372/.578, 153 OPS+, 37 home runs, 77 extra base hits, 141 RBI's, 8.8 WAR
2003: .294/.366/.535, 140 OPS+, 35 home runs, 75 extra base hits, 117 RBI's, 5.9 WAR

He lso had a 4.2 WAR season in 2002. 18.9 WAR over that three year span... he finished with 22.8 overall.


and disappeared once testing started. One of the more obvious roid abusers.
 

navamind

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Prove it... merely saying "I remember that they threw just as hard" isn't proof.

Show me that the average fastball in Kaat's day was as fast as today's 92mph.

He doesn't need proof, he played pro ball.
 

Voltaire26

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Prove it... merely saying "I remember that they threw just as hard" isn't proof.

Show me that the average fastball in Kaat's day was as fast as today's 92mph.

I tried out for the Detroit Tigers minor league system ... no I didn't make it (not really close), but I batted against some pitchers that did ... not many were throwing consistently in the 90's as they are now. There are a lot of high school pitchers (now) that can reach the 90's. I don't know how many people on here have tried to hit live pitching in the upper 90's and then are prepared to hit a mid 80's change up, but you have to be freakin' good!!!
 

molsaniceman

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a few tidbits about pitching:suds:

  • It takes a 100 mph fastball 396 milliseconds to cover the sixty-feet, six-inch distance between the mound and home plate.
  • The 50-millisecond difference between trying to hit a 92 mph fastball versus a 100 mph fastball is immense: “At 92 miles per hour, you can see the seams and MLB logo on the ball, at 100 mph it becomes a golf ball,” says Cleveland Indians second baseman Brandon Phillips.
  • Cardinals pitcher Bob Gibson’s 1968 season ERA of 1.12 is 35% lower than any other number in the live-ball era.
  • The Cuban Missile, Aroldis Chapman, may have thrown a 105.1 mph fastball in 2010 to set a Major League record, but (SPOILER ALERT) when you correct for radar gun placement, Nolan Ryan’s legendary 1974 heater clocked at 100.9 was really the top speed ever, at a blazing 108.5 miles per hour.
  • And that, folks, is about the outer limit of human ability; any faster and the force required would literally rip the pitcher’s arm off. (Whoever said physics wasn’t cool?)
 

DragonfromTO

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Prove it... merely saying "I remember that they threw just as hard" isn't proof.

Show me that the average fastball in Kaat's day was as fast as today's 92mph.

He's like Frank Dux, radar guns followed him everywhere as a young man.

Big points for anyone who gets that joke/connection. :wink:
 

Pure Steel

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He's like Frank Dux, radar guns followed him everywhere as a young man.

Big points for anyone who gets that joke/connection. :wink:
I felt bad when Ogre got killed in Bloodsport......Actually he ends up in the hospital....
 

Voltaire26

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a few tidbits about pitching:suds:

  • It takes a 100 mph fastball 396 milliseconds to cover the sixty-feet, six-inch distance between the mound and home plate.
  • The 50-millisecond difference between trying to hit a 92 mph fastball versus a 100 mph fastball is immense: “At 92 miles per hour, you can see the seams and MLB logo on the ball, at 100 mph it becomes a golf ball,” says Cleveland Indians second baseman Brandon Phillips.
  • Cardinals pitcher Bob Gibson’s 1968 season ERA of 1.12 is 35% lower than any other number in the live-ball era.
  • The Cuban Missile, Aroldis Chapman, may have thrown a 105.1 mph fastball in 2010 to set a Major League record, but (SPOILER ALERT) when you correct for radar gun placement, Nolan Ryan’s legendary 1974 heater clocked at 100.9 was really the top speed ever, at a blazing 108.5 miles per hour.
  • And that, folks, is about the outer limit of human ability; any faster and the force required would literally rip the pitcher’s arm off. (Whoever said physics wasn’t cool?)

From experience ... all I can tell you is ... I couldn't hit it.
 
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