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Geez this team is terrible

chico ruiz

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ok, apparently my math skills have diminished to a grade 2 level or worse. i always enjoyed finger painting.
 

chico ruiz

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i do feel some relief about the reds. back to back excellent outings by two young starting pitchers. that's a tremendous boost for the organization. i didn't see today's game. was the getaway strike zone obvious at gabp?
 

chico ruiz

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to h-n-r's post: i always thought it was premature of the reds to point at 2018 as a competitive year. they kind of set themselves up for failure. the second half of this year was my telltale window. the window for ascertaining what they really had with starting pitching going into 2019. 150+ innings from romano, castillo, mahle, finnegan, garrett?, stephenson?, lorenzen?, desclafani?, and reed? as possible starters or relievers. all those guys will shake out by end of season. harvey? i will be very surprised if he is a red next year. the reds have bailey for one more year at a extraordinarily high cost. in addition, they have to give him 5 million in 2020 to go away. regardless, by end of season, they will know exactly what they need for 2019. it shouldn't be too difficult to obtain those needs. they have the makings of a very good bullpen for 2019, and i haven't even mentioned senzel, trammel, santillan, herget, mella, stephenson (the catcher), etc etc. yeah, the reds set up much better for 2019.
 

Hit-n-Run

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ok, apparently my math skills have diminished to a grade 2 level or w

The reason the ESPN numbers equal less than Mesoraco's $13M is due to the pro-rated amounts they've already recieved. Player are payed 6 times a season. Mesoraco's pro-rated amount would be over $1.5M more than Harvey's.
 

JohnU

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I think the notion of being competitive in 2018 was based on the best-case scenario. Had young pitchers outgunned the data, they would be in contention somewhere into late July. I think we'd all have been OK with that.

To that end, the disappointments are connected to intangibles -- an infield that is not nearly as good as we have learned to accept as reasonable. Cozart-Phillips. Regardless of our opinion of them, there hasn't been many better.

Pitching is tricky and for young guys, if all the dots don't connect, they end up losing. I think the worst problem was adding Gallardo to the bullpen mix. Bad decisions are hard to put your thumb on.

This is not a 10-27 team. At this point, who cares?
 

Hit-n-Run

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Castillo has gotten off to a slow start, but has been better the last couple times out. Mahle and Romano are pretty close to what I expected. All three should improve if good health permits.

I'm not disappointed with the young pitching. The Reds had a lot more confidence in players returning from injury than they should have.

Overall Peraza has played OK at SS, but it's been a big drop off at 2nd. Suarez is the most improved defender on the team. Votto is better when he's awake.
 

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Dick Williams was President of Baseball Operations and GM. Effective today Nick Krall is the new GM and DW remains President.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but to me that falls under the category of;
Things that make you go hmm.
 

JohnU

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I suspect Bob C has cracked open a can of Hudepohl and found an image of the Virgin Mary in the head. Dunno what this means to the front office since there's little that Krall can do at this point. The bus is headed over the cliff. Change drivers? Did that.

What buzzes me is if Krall was so adroit at being a GM, why wasn't he that before the season began? Although, it's kind of like ... the deals were made last month and surfaced today so we get the impression that trades and signings just happened this morning. "Hey, I know ... let's trade our catcher to the Mets." (Good idea. I'll go find the forms.)

Then again, maybe old Banana Bob has lost his fruits and nuts. There's a big oblong mahogany table somewhere that seats 12 people. There's a woman pouring coffee and bringing out trays of sammichs and cookies. There, the fate of Humandumb is measured.
 

Hit-n-Run

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Three in a row.

Mahle labored his way through 5 innings. He bent, but didn't break. Votto didn't help Mahle's pitch count by showing poor defensive acuity on a couple plays.

Now we're back to the 5th and 1st slot in the rotation. You don't expect any SP to be perfect, but the Reds #1and #5 have been. The team has lost 100% of the games they've started. Some of that is out of the pitchers control, but they've played a heavy hand in it.

Finnegan was a train wreck, but Homer threw a few quality starts before going off the rails as of late. Homer's biggest problem has been regaining consistency in his slider. His velocity is down a little overall and he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of swing and misses. Allowing home runs has been a problem for the entire rotation and none more so than the appropriately named Homer.
 

JohnU

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Three in a row.

Mahle labored his way through 5 innings. He bent, but didn't break. Votto didn't help Mahle's pitch count by showing poor defensive acuity on a couple plays.

Now we're back to the 5th and 1st slot in the rotation. You don't expect any SP to be perfect, but the Reds #1and #5 have been. The team has lost 100% of the games they've started. Some of that is out of the pitchers control, but they've played a heavy hand in it.

Finnegan was a train wreck, but Homer threw a few quality starts before going off the rails as of late. Homer's biggest problem has been regaining consistency in his slider. His velocity is down a little overall and he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of swing and misses. Allowing home runs has been a problem for the entire rotation and none more so than the appropriately named Homer.
Yeah, Homer lacks a put-away pitch. Too many foul balls on 30-cent sliders. Eventually without the gas or hard-core splitter, he's just batting practice.
I would think his problems are correctable inside what's left of his skills, but I imagine there are parts to his mechanics that can't ever be the same. He was never a great pitcher anyway. I always wanted 3 out of 5 decent games from him. Now we get 3 out of 5 decent innings.
 

JohnU

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Mahle became a big-league pitcher last night.
Threw 100-some pitches and didn't cave in.
It's an example of a guy being given a job and actually taking it.
Reed and Stephenson should actually pay attention to this.
The paychecks are better if you get people out in tough situations.
 

Hit-n-Run

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I think Homer had all the physical tools to be an elite pitcher. His mental game was never consistently on par with the tools. When Homer was engaged in the game and not pissing and moaning he could be hell on wheels. The no-hitters and his playoff appearances were a window into what could have been.

I think the tools are diminished from injury. That's common among guys returning from TJ and other assorted long term recovery injuries. They often regain or even slightly improve velocity, but their touch and feel never seem to be the same on the breaking pitches.
 

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The Reds managers have been quick with the hook this season. I think there's developmental value in letting them work out of trouble.

I think letting Mahle throw 100+ last night was a result of knowing Harvey isn't going to.
 

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The Reds managers have been quick with the hook this season. I think there's developmental value in letting them work out of trouble.

I think letting Mahle throw 100+ last night was a result of knowing Harvey isn't going to.
That might be spot on but as well, I think Mahle's control problems were the result of too much adrenaline. There was a lot of movement on his stuff. I recall seeing Nolan Ryan have that at times -- unhittable because the ball was hopping too much. In another world, Mahle can maximize that.
The trends now to removing guys in the 5th or 6th inning will last another 2-3 years until somebody finds some data that says they are full of shit.
Teams like the Reds can't find enough quality bullpen (cheap) that will allow them to compete on that grid. The top money teams can afford to sign good pitchers to middle relief. The Reds will still keep looking for Shacklefords.
Reds were lucky they could save Hernandez and Brice, though if Harvey gets shelled in the 2nd or 3rd inning, I do think Garrett will get the ball for 2 and a little more innings.
 

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Maybe Harvey will find himself and pitch well. And maybe the Reds won't lose anther game this year.
 

JohnU

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Maybe Harvey will find himself and pitch well. And maybe the Reds won't lose anther game this year.
If this was Dec. 31, there would be a 50-50 chance they could end the year without losing again.
 

Hit-n-Run

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Reds were lucky they could save Hernandez and Brice, though if Harvey gets shelled in the 2nd or 3rd inning, I do think Garrett will get the ball for 2 and a little more innings.

I think Jackson Stephens is still on the active roster. He might pick up a few garbage innings depending on how Harvey fares.
 

JohnU

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Gotta wonder if Barnhart knows how to call a Harvey game.
It's not like spring training and I suspect Barney has never faced Harvey or if he has, maybe only once. It's not like they see these guys often.
If Harvey lasts 2 innings I will be mildly surprised. This could be the game that Riggy throws to the wolves.
 

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If he last only 2 innings or less, Finnagan will have a fit. But really Finnagan has no one to blame but himself, He should have went down to AAA to begin with, until he was ready to come up
 

Hit-n-Run

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Overall I don't have a lot of complaints about Riggleman. But the double switch snafu was a bad moment.

The excuse given is Schebler assumed he was coming out and ran off the field without anyone noticing and Winker assumed he was going to RF when Shebs ran off.

If that's true it's still a strange move. Inserting Duvall in the 8th hole due up second and putting the pitcher in the leadoff spot due up 4th isn't a typical double switch strategy.

I'm not a big fan of the amount of double switching managers do. It has its place, but a lot of times it's done simply because it can be.
 
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