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Where do the Lakers go from here...?

shopson67

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If they can get a great trio in LA they need to do all they can do to shed cap to be able to hold on to Randle but it would still be close. He would be a huge piece.

If they can get rid of Deng in a 3 team trade then Ball, Ingram and Kuzma are included they would only have 6,234,445 not counting the Kawhi contract or whoever they take back.

Lebron $35M
CP3 $35M (give or take)
Kawhi $20

Randle's cap hold is $14.4M and there is a cap hold for empty roster spots under 12.

Getting George would be about $5M cheaper than CP3, but they still wouldn't be able to keep Randle. Lakers would need to shed Deng (with a prospect) and only have 2 big additions to keep Randle if those are the salaries.
 

tlance

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How is he not similar?

Kuzma: 6'9, 220, 77 games, 16.1 ppg, 6.3 reb, 1.8 ast, 45/37/70%, 52.7% eFG, 14.2 PER, 3.8 win shares
Tatum: 6'8, 205, 80 games, 13.9 ppg, 5.0 reb, 1.6 ast, 47/43/82%, 53.8% eFG, 15.3 PER, 7.1 win shares

Tatum shot a bit better and is the better defender. I never said equal, I said similar.

I am not looking at stats, I have actually watched them play.

Kuzma posted those numbers on a mediocre team with a relatively up tempo offense and without a go to scorer. Tatum posted his on arguably the best team in the Eastern conference playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league and other quality vets.
 

shopson67

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I am not looking at stats, I have actually watched them play.

Kuzma posted those numbers on a mediocre team with a relatively up tempo offense and without a go to scorer. Tatum posted his on arguably the best team in the Eastern conference playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league and other quality vets.

...and that can be taken two ways. Having better players around you, including an all-star PG, draws the defense and opens up shots and driving lanes. Sure, he may get fewer shots, and that shows with better shooting and fewer points. We have all seen them play. In fact, head to head Kuzma got the better of Tatum. In the first meeting, Tatum didn't play much and Kuzma only had mediocre stats. In the second game, Kuzma had a huge game with 28 pts to Tatum's 4.
 

trojanfan12

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Lonzo had an awful rookie year

Uh, no he didn't. His shooting was terrible. But his passing and court vision are elite level, he rebounds very well for a point guard and his defense was much better than expected.

He also made 2nd team all rookie.

So, I guess if you ignore everything about the game of basketball besides shooting, he did have a terrible rookie season. lol
 

trojanfan12

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I am not looking at stats, I have actually watched them play.

Kuzma posted those numbers on a mediocre team with a relatively up tempo offense and without a go to scorer. Tatum posted his on arguably the best team in the Eastern conference playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league and other quality vets.

Doesn't being arguably the best team in the East make them mediocre by definition? lol
 

trojanfan12

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The Lakers have drafted well so far even without a #1. The Lakers have been bad for maybe a handful of years, nothing compared to Philly who has been tanking for what feels like forever. Even Ainge missed on his fair share of picks. Luckily he had a stockpile of them. The Lakers have done more with less.

2014: Randle #7, Clarkson #46
2015: Russell #2, Nance Jr. #27, Brown #34
2016: Ingram #2, Zubac #32
2017: Ball #2, Kuzma #27

Worst case scenario, no one signs and you just give up on the playoffs for another year and try again next free agency while getting those guys another year of experience and improvement. You brought on Pelinka and Magic specifically to negotiate with free agents, and were confident enough to clear space for 2 max slots in a slim free agency class to go after the biggest of fish in LeBron. I don't believe they will go the Jim Buss route and settle for plan B. Take a shot at Kawhi next season.

I wouldn't mind Boogie (and I was dead set against him for awhile) as long as 2 things happen...

1.) There have to be assurances that he can be at least close to where he was before the injury.

2.) I'd want him on less money and/or a shorter deal.

If not for that injury, I believe he would be high on the Lakers wish list this off-season.
 

trojanfan12

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I am not looking at stats, I have actually watched them play.

Kuzma posted those numbers on a mediocre team with a relatively up tempo offense and without a go to scorer. Tatum posted his on arguably the best team in the Eastern conference playing alongside one of the best scorers in the league and other quality vets.

I watched them play too. I agree with you to a point.

I think that this year...they looked to be pretty similar.

However, my eyes tell me that Tatum has more upside than Kuzma. I think Kuzma only has room to improve slightly (the natural improvement that will come with time in the league), but Tatum still has a lot of untapped potential. Which should scare the rest of the league.
 

flyerhawk

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Smart's shooting percentages last year are nearly identical to Ball's. Ball got off to a horrible start, but improved a bit as the year progressed. Good to see he's working out this summer, as he should be able to absorb more contact (although most of his attempts were on the perimeter if my memory serves). However, Ball doubles Smart's rebounds and out-assisted him 7.2-4.8 pg. Ball may not be the flashy defender that Smart is, but did get more steals, blocks, and defensive win shares than Smart. Again, were talking about a 19 year old rookie vs a 24 year old vet supposedly known for defense.

I was only speaking of past performance and specifically said we should be cautious before judging Ball after only 1 year.

But right now, Marcus Smart is a better player than Ball. That could change next year. Or perhaps a better way to say it is, Marcus Smart is a more valuable player to have than Lonzo.

Stats can be misleading.
 

Shanemansj13

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How is he not similar?

Kuzma: 6'9, 220, 77 games, 16.1 ppg, 6.3 reb, 1.8 ast, 45/37/70%, 52.7% eFG, 14.2 PER, 3.8 win shares
Tatum: 6'8, 205, 80 games, 13.9 ppg, 5.0 reb, 1.6 ast, 47/43/82%, 53.8% eFG, 15.3 PER, 7.1 win shares

Tatum shot a bit better and is the better defender. I never said equal, I said similar.

Tatum’s ceiling looks to be much higher and he is 3 years younger
 

Shanemansj13

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Uh, no he didn't. His shooting was terrible. But his passing and court vision are elite level, he rebounds very well for a point guard and his defense was much better than expected.

He also made 2nd team all rookie.

So, I guess if you ignore everything about the game of basketball besides shooting, he did have a terrible rookie season. lol

Assists, rebounds yes very impressive looks to be a less talented Kidd. His shooting was AWFUL. Historically bad, if you cant shoot you are going to pass, not taking away from his stats but I am looking at on the court more than just stats. He still has a high ceiling but with that shooting motion I would not expect his scoring ability to get to an AS level. He can be great for a team that wants a pass first PG and sucks at shooting. Rondo-type but to lesser extent. Not sure how you can shoot FT’s that bad. It’s horrific, a small sample though so we will see
 

shopson67

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I was only speaking of past performance and specifically said we should be cautious before judging Ball after only 1 year.

But right now, Marcus Smart is a better player than Ball. That could change next year. Or perhaps a better way to say it is, Marcus Smart is a more valuable player to have than Lonzo.

Stats can be misleading.

Stats can also be revealing...especially when the public perception of a player has been so closely tied to one aspect of their game.
 

flyerhawk

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Stats can also be revealing...especially when the public perception of a player has been so closely tied to one aspect of their game.

Sometimes. Do you really think that Lonzo Ball is better defender than Marcus Smart?
 

True Lakers Fan

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It doesn't always turn out like that. Every player has their ceiling. You perceive my comments saying that Ingram won't improve. I literally said that Ingram could very well turn out to be a star player. But I'm also saying there's a strong possibility that he won't ever get to the level that Kawhi's on now. And I don't hate the Lakers right now, my opinion is putting myself in the shoes of Popovich. That's the thing that you and some Lakers fans keep forgetting - Kawhi's under contract for one more year and by all accounts, Pop's not trading him to the Lakers.

Thank you for pointing that out - That's my point - You said it different, but the fact it doesn't always turn out like that - also means - that it Does - so when those of you act and state that is something that will absolutely never happen and can't - well that's ignorant because it does happen often enough. I do agree, however that with the Spurs - It highly unlikely the Lakers will be gifted. They won't because the Spurs are smarter then that and they will take their time to look for the best deal possible and they should do that

That being said - If Leonard comes out and tells other teams that he plans to sign with the Lakers next season - his trade value will drop considerably - I doubt that he does that though because he would be doing a huge injustice to himself and damage his future credibility. I think the Spurs will tell him to STFU while they negotiate and he will because it's the smart thing to do
 

trojanfan12

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Assists, rebounds yes very impressive looks to be a less talented Kidd. His shooting was AWFUL. Historically bad, if you cant shoot you are going to pass, not taking away from his stats but I am looking at on the court more than just stats. He still has a high ceiling but with that shooting motion I would not expect his scoring ability to get to an AS level. He can be great for a team that wants a pass first PG and sucks at shooting. Rondo-type but to lesser extent. Not sure how you can shoot FT’s that bad. It’s horrific, a small sample though so we will see

None of what you said translates to a terrible rookie year. It's hilarious that you think his poor shooting is all that matters.

Additionally, the only thing he absolutely HAS to improve from a shooting perspective is his free throw shooting. He's a pass 1st, 2nd and 3rd point guard, so his scoring isn't nearly as important. If he improves it to the point where teams can't just ignore him, that will be good enough.

However, the free throw shooting must improve. You can't have point guard that can be Hack-A-Shaq'd late in close games.

His 41% 3 point shooting and 67% free throw shooting at UCLA would seem to suggest that he can improve in both areas.

Besides, according to Lavar, all the Lakers need to do is tell him to hit his free throws. lol
 

trojanfan12

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Sometimes. Do you really think that Lonzo Ball is better defender than Marcus Smart?

I don't, but he doesn't need to be. I didn't see a guy who is likely to be 1st team all defense like I think Smart can be. But he was a helluva lot better than I expected.
 

trojanfan12

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It doesn't always turn out like that. Every player has their ceiling. You perceive my comments saying that Ingram won't improve. I literally said that Ingram could very well turn out to be a star player. But I'm also saying there's a strong possibility that he won't ever get to the level that Kawhi's on now. And I don't hate the Lakers right now, my opinion is putting myself in the shoes of Popovich. That's the thing that you and some Lakers fans keep forgetting - Kawhi's under contract for one more year and by all accounts, Pop's not trading him to the Lakers.

It's actually been reported since yesterday that the Spurs would deal with the Lakers if the Lakers have the best offer.

The only way that will happen though, is if Kawhi kills his trade value so teams like the Sixers and Celtics aren't willing to beat the Lakers offer. They aren't likely to want to risk what they have built on a likely 1 year rental.

Even at that, some lower level playoff team may come in with a better offer on a 1 year rental feeling they don't have as much to lose.
 

flyerhawk

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I don't, but he doesn't need to be. I didn't see a guy who is likely to be 1st team all defense like I think Smart can be. But he was a helluva lot better than I expected.

To be clear, I wasn't arguing that Smart will be a better player than Ball. I was only talking about last year.

Going forward both of them need to significantly improve their shooting if they want to reach the next level.
 

trojanfan12

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To be clear, I wasn't arguing that Smart will be a better player than Ball. I was only talking about last year.

Going forward both of them need to significantly improve their shooting if they want to reach the next level.

Oh, I know. But I agree with you regarding defense. I think Smart is a better defender and will likely always be a better defender.
 

flyerhawk

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Oh, I know. But I agree with you regarding defense. I think Smart is a better defender and will likely always be a better defender.

Probably so. It is his defining characteristic.
 
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