Active HOFers?

broncosmitty · Jun 18, 2018

MilkSpiller22 said:
Kluber is all about Quality over quantity.... He has 2 CY, and both seasons he was the clear CY... how many pitchers are the BEST for multiple seasons?? there have been many players that will not or did not make the HOF with 2 CY, but there has never been one that didn't make it with 3... and Kluber is so good right now, I can easily see him getting his third, if not this season, then soon...

He will have to pitch at a high level until he's like 40. He didn't have an ERA under 5 before he was 27. There's work to do. Innings to log.

Quantity does make a difference.

Colon and Peavy could get more votes if all their careers were officially over today.

Mebert · Jun 18, 2018

broncosmitty said:
He will have to pitch at a high level until he's like 40. He didn't have an ERA under 5 before he was 27. There's work to do. Innings to log.

Quantity does make a difference.

Colon and Peavy could get more votes if all their careers were officially over today.

Koufax did it in 5. Kluber has not been that good, but I dont see why 7-8 years like he has been pitching would not do it. He has 4.5 so far.

broncosmitty · Jun 18, 2018

Mebert said:
Koufax did it in 5. Kluber has not been that good, but I dont see why 7-8 years like he has been pitching would not do it. He has 4.5 so far.

130 Wins would be a tough sell.

It's not like people have been screaming "Corey Kluber is the best pitcher in baseball." for years or anything.

That third CYA is also an unattained milestone right now.

broncosmitty · Jun 18, 2018

And I like Kluber a lot.

Just see him being a HOFer as a tough thing to pull off.

Chewbaccer · Jun 18, 2018

Sabathia is the one name I've seen that should have been in my OP.

And as for Utley, I guess I just saw him play a lot, and during his peak, he was the best best at his position.

But saying Kluber gets in over Verlander is laughable to me.

navamind · Jun 18, 2018

broncosmitty said:
I'll never understand the Utley thing.

Dude isn't going to be a HOFer with less than 2000 hits. Don't believe me? Ask Bobby Grich.

I agree he isn't making it... or at least not anytime soon. Grich is a good comparison unfortunately. Both would easily be in my HOF though.

navamind · Jun 18, 2018

broncosmitty said:
And I like Kluber a lot.

Just see him being a HOFer as a tough thing to pull off.

He's a bit of a late bloomer kind of like Cliff Lee, though Lee reached the majors at an earlier age than Kluber and Kluber had his CYA season at 28 while Lee was 29. Kluber's 2017 and maybe 2014 are better than any of Lee's best years. But yeah, it'll be tough for Kluber and he's 32 now. But he has a very good argument for being the best pitcher in the AL over the last 4.5-5 years.

navamind · Jun 18, 2018

I was on the fence a year or so ago on Verlander, but I'd say he's in my HOF now. He has a lifetime 126 ERA+, 60+ WAR, has been a workhorse in his era and great postseason stats. He has two fantastic seasons (2011-12) and a bunch of other All-Star seasons in there.

broncosmitty · Jun 18, 2018

navamind said:
He's a bit of a late bloomer kind of like Cliff Lee, though Lee reached the majors at an earlier age than Kluber and Kluber had his CYA season at 28 while Lee was 29. Kluber's 2017 and maybe 2014 are better than any of Lee's best years. But yeah, it'll be tough for Kluber and he's 32 now. But he has a very good argument for being the best pitcher in the AL over the last 4.5-5 years.

He very well may have been. And could be for a couple more.

I just don't see him having enough length to his career before Father Time gets him.

navamind · Jun 18, 2018

broncosmitty said:
He very well may have been. And could be for a couple more.

I just don't see him having enough length to his career before Father Time gets him.

we'll see. I tend to think of age as just a number with pitchers sometimes. even if Kluber doesn't put together the longest career, he could have an interesting peak case. you could say this about any pitcher, but I think it would be better to revisit him in a few years.

broncosmitty · Jun 19, 2018

navamind said:
we'll see. I tend to think of age as just a number with pitchers sometimes. even if Kluber doesn't put together the longest career, he could have an interesting peak case. you could say this about any pitcher, but I think it would be better to revisit him in a few years.

No issue giving the guy a chance.

Pretty sure we've talked about this before. Think I mentioned Scherzers semi mediocre early stuff being a huge advantage. And without it, it's a tough Row to hoe.

I'm sure we'll talk about it again.

Howie115 · Jun 19, 2018

broncosmitty said:
You're really fighting a losing battle on this one milk.

Being the workhorse of his generation with the numbers he (Verlander) has, pretty much seals things. I guess he could get hurt his next time out, never pitch again and it might be close. 200 Wins is prolly that last necissary mark.

That one seems like it will come quick with the team he's on.

Yep. If he finishes this season alone, he'll be over 200 wins and 2600 strikeouts. He has a Cy Young, an AL MVP, an ALCS MVP, and while he hasn't pitch great in the WS, he is 3-0 in postseason elimination games.

MilkSpiller22 · Jun 19, 2018

broncosmitty said:
130 Wins would be a tough sell.

It's not like people have been screaming "Corey Kluber is the best pitcher in baseball." for years or anything.

That third CYA is also an unattained milestone right now.

I have been consistent here. I have always said that Kluber needs that third OR he must have a couple more ELITE seasons. Never said he was in today. He is not.

Also, I have said that verlander is still active, so he can improve his numbers. So he can sell it for me.

And if verlander gets a second CY then he is in.

So if he continues this seasons dominance then sure he is a HOFer. I just don’t think he will continue it.

I would bet on kluber over verlander this season. And I just can’t imagine a 3 CY pitcher NOT make the hof.

navamind · Aug 24, 2018

Greinke putting together another great season (3.06 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 162 IP, 141 ERA+, 5.16 K/BB, 3.5 WAR).

Also worth noting he has a career line of .219/.259/.314 (54 OPS+) with 25 doubles and 6 home runs in 528 PA. 4.2 WAR as a hitter and 60.9 as a pitcher.

navamind · May 17, 2019

Felix looks like a no at this point. Even if you ignore the last few seasons, his career stats are in line with Hamels/Lester and those guys are not only adding to their careers, but are still pitching at a high level. It seems unlikely that Felix will ever even be an average pitcher at this point.

msgkings322 · May 18, 2019

MilkSpiller22 said:
Verlander is a weird case for me... his career ERA is nothing special, but his IP is... but the advanced stats love him... then he gets the great BIG GAME pitcher title, but has yet to win a WS game... so how big game is he??

was only a CY once, only had 3 seasons of below 3.00 ERA...

The new Jack Morris

StanMarsh51 · May 18, 2019

msgkings322 said:
The new Jack Morris

Not even close, considering Verlander's had numerous dominant seasons while one can make the case Morris didn't have any.

Nosferatu · May 18, 2019

StanMarsh51 said:
Not even close, considering Verlander's had numerous dominant seasons while one can make the case Morris didn't have any.

I'd say his 1986 was pretty dominant. Also his game 7 in 1991 was better than anything Verlander has ever done.

navamind · May 18, 2019

msgkings322 said:
The new Jack Morris

Except Verlander was a much better pitcher in pretty much every regard (even the postseason)

StanMarsh51 · May 18, 2019

Nosferatu said:
I'd say his 1986 was pretty dominant. Also his game 7 in 1991 was better than anything Verlander has ever done.

In '86 he had a 3.27 ERA (6th in AL), 1.17 WHIP (5th in AL), and 2.72 K/BB (8th in AL). Just to put that in perspective, Ervin Santana's 2017 was probably just as good from a performance standpoint, so if we're calling Morris' '1986 season pretty dominant, that's a fairly low bar. He did win 21 games, but he also had a top 3 offense in baseball that year supporting him.

And yes, he had a great 1991 game 7, but it's not a dominant season..it's one game. And are we to ignore that Morris' career playoff log is pretty evenly split between mediocre/bad games and good/dominant games simply because of game 7?

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