Leighton Vander Esch

ArlingtonCowboys100 · Apr 28, 2018

smilesid said:
I've seen LVE play, a lot, and you have no clue, my friend. I also watched Demarcus play every down in college too, and LVE is a better player.

You don't get 141 tackles, all those forced fumbles, pass breakups, interceptions, and dominate the field like he does by being soft. Here's what you miss about him, the plays that don't make the highlight reel. The MLB is supposed to be able to do everything, run, pass, blitz, 1st down, 4th down. I've watched him run across the field and run down a back from behind. I watched him break coverage and make a tackle that prevented a touchdown when he was 20 yards off of the play. He plays every down in a BSU defense that rotates almost everyone else. And he's still full speed at the end as he was at the beginning. He made at least three game ending interceptions, tackles and forced fumbles that I personally witnessed.

What you call soft, folks who know football call smart. You want a guy to blow up a blocker? I want a guy to slip the blocker and make the tackle! LVE's real strength is his field sense, I've never seen a better linebacker. He reads run and plugs the hole turning a big gain into no gain. He reads screen or draw, and reacts. He can drop into coverage and run stride for stride with almost any receiver. In zone coverage he gets to the play before a receiver can. I can't tell you how many times he came out of no where to break up a pass or pick off a loss ball.

But I'm glad that you bad mouthed him. I suspect that you'll be eating your words and damn glad that he's a Cowboy. Here's his highlight reel, if you want it.

I think Vander esh needs to hit the weight room. One cant over look hi's ability to diagnose the play and he has elite Change of direction. He also creates lots of turnovers which the Cowboys badly needed at LB. Now the Cowboys have two linebackers thar are playmakers,possibly 3 if jaylon builds off of last season

Earl Stevens · Apr 29, 2018

I’ve been digging what I’ve could on LVE since we’ve drafted him. The thing that sticks out the most to me is his instincts and how he rarely fills the wrong gap on run plays. Those are things you just can’t teach.

UK Cowboy · Apr 29, 2018

Earl Stevens said:
I’ve been digging what I’ve could on LVE since we’ve drafted him. The thing that sticks out the most to me is his instincts and how he rarely fills the wrong gap on run plays. Those are things you just can’t teach.

Playing beside Sean Lee won't hurt either..

fordman84 · May 4, 2018

es4m11 said:
I knew it! Posted it here a month ago and then again yesterday. That said, I hate this pick. LVE is soft. I hate to write a guy off before he's even played a down, but just watch the game tape of LVE. This guy shies away from contact at every opportunity.

I hope he is the next Urlacher, but I think LVE will be closer to the next Barbie Carpenter.

Hate it.

Barbie is exactly who I think of when I see this pick. He's fast but can't shed a block and gonna get eaten up in the NFL. I absolutely hate this pick.

But I hated the Zeke pick and loved the Taco pick, so WTF do I know?

fordman84 · May 4, 2018

But...in Will I trust.

jarntt · May 4, 2018

fordman84 said:
Barbie is exactly who I think of when I see this pick. He's fast but can't shed a block and gonna get eaten up in the NFL. I absolutely hate this pick.

But I hated the Zeke pick and loved the Taco pick, so WTF do I know?

I have no issue with anyone liking or disliking a pick because as you say, who really knows? We all hope for the best but even the Pro scouts swing and miss. My only problem is the comparisons to Carpenter. They are mostly baseless and unfair and no different than comparing Mayfield to Manziel. LVE may be good, great or horrible, but he won't be Carpenter or Urlacher. He'll be Vander Esch. It's like when people don't want a particular position from a particular School because someone else was disappointing. Just never made sense to me.

tomodach10 · May 4, 2018

Bobbie Carpenter still gives me nightmares. Vander Esch is a different player. No comparison.

es4m11 · May 23, 2018

smilesid said:
I've seen LVE play, a lot, and you have no clue, my friend. I also watched Demarcus play every down in college too, and LVE is a better player.

You don't get 141 tackles, all those forced fumbles, pass breakups, interceptions, and dominate the field like he does by being soft. Here's what you miss about him, the plays that don't make the highlight reel. The MLB is supposed to be able to do everything, run, pass, blitz, 1st down, 4th down. I've watched him run across the field and run down a back from behind. I watched him break coverage and make a tackle that prevented a touchdown when he was 20 yards off of the play. He plays every down in a BSU defense that rotates almost everyone else. And he's still full speed at the end as he was at the beginning. He made at least three game ending interceptions, tackles and forced fumbles that I personally witnessed.

What you call soft, folks who know football call smart. You want a guy to blow up a blocker? I want a guy to slip the blocker and make the tackle! LVE's real strength is his field sense, I've never seen a better linebacker. He reads run and plugs the hole turning a big gain into no gain. He reads screen or draw, and reacts. He can drop into coverage and run stride for stride with almost any receiver. In zone coverage he gets to the play before a receiver can. I can't tell you how many times he came out of no where to break up a pass or pick off a loss ball.

But I'm glad that you bad mouthed him. I suspect that you'll be eating your words and damn glad that he's a Cowboy. Here's his highlight reel, if you want it.

I sincerely hope that you're right. I very much would like for him to be great.

My concerns are that his tactics for avoiding contact won't fly at the NFL level against NFL linemen. He won't be able to out-maneuver everyone in the NFL like he was able to do a lot of the time in college. LVE struggled against blockers, that's not really an opinion, he will have to make large strides in this aspect of his game at the NFL level, otherwise he will likely be a liability in the running game. As far as LVE in pass coverage, I think he will be good in that role, never said otherwise.

I'll be more than happy to be wrong on this one. I hope I am. I hope that Vander Esch is a bigger, stronger, faster, healthier version of Sean Lee. We will see.

es4m11 · May 23, 2018

jarntt said:
I have no issue with anyone liking or disliking a pick because as you say, who really knows? We all hope for the best but even the Pro scouts swing and miss. My only problem is the comparisons to Carpenter. They are mostly baseless and unfair and no different than comparing Mayfield to Manziel. LVE may be good, great or horrible, but he won't be Carpenter or Urlacher. He'll be Vander Esch. It's like when people don't want a particular position from a particular School because someone else was disappointing. Just never made sense to me.

As far as how I see Vander Esch profiling in the NFL, I thought Carpenter was an approximate description. Mid first round pick, good athlete, liability in the run game, good in pass coverage.

As stated many times before, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to present myself as an authority on the matter. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

ArlingtonCowboys100 · May 24, 2018

es4m11 said:
As far as how I see Vander Esch profiling in the NFL, I thought Carpenter was an approximate description. Mid first round pick, good athlete, liability in the run game, good in pass coverage.

As stated many times before, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to present myself as an authority on the matter. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

I think LVE is a way better athlete than Barbie. The thing they seem to have in common is neither is physical and they are white. LVE is way more explosive and is taller with crazy length compared to Barbie. He is also more instinctive. I loathed the Barbie pick and destroyed my remote control when we picked him. LVE is different to me

es4m11 · May 24, 2018

ArlingtonCowboys100 said:
I think LVE is a way better athlete than Barbie. The thing they seem to have in common is neither is physical and they are white. LVE is way more explosive and is taller with crazy length compared to Barbie. He is also more instinctive. I loathed the Barbie pick and destroyed my remote control when we picked him. LVE is different to me

I want you to be right....

jarntt · May 24, 2018

es4m11 said:
I want you to be right....

You can say that again
Look at this team assuming LVE is each of hte two players he was compared to. First a young Urlacher and then a young Bobbie Carpenter. The differences in this teams future are staggering depending on which you assume. Even assuming starting and NFL average year 1 would be great for this team.

es4m11 · May 25, 2018

jarntt said:
You can say that again
Look at this team assuming LVE is each of hte two players he was compared to. First a young Urlacher and then a young Bobbie Carpenter. The differences in this teams future are staggering depending on which you assume. Even assuming starting and NFL average year 1 would be great for this team.

This defense is a good MLB away from really being something IMO. Pass coverage is paramount in today's NFL, but your MLB still needs to be able to shut down the run, or fill a gap, or take on lead blockers to stop them from advancing to the second level.

If LVE is a reasonable facsimile of what Urlacher was, a do it all type of MLB who is comfortable and capable in any situation, then great because that's what this team needs (what team doesn't?). LVE doesn't have to be Urlacher, just need him to be solid in the run game. Not worried about LVE in pass coverage.

If LVE is closer to Carpenter, a niche player who is probably only suited for obvious passing downs, then I think we could all agree that would be a disappointment.

I'm just very concerned how LVE is going to respond to NFL caliber linemen getting into his chest and mauling him on running downs. He didn't see nastiness in the Mountain West like he's going to experience in the NFL. And with only a one year track record, well we will see...

The flip side to LVE only having a one year track record is he may still have a ton of room to grow. I'm not totally down on the guy. Just thought that Rashaan Evans was a safer pick, and a guy who could do everything we need a MLB to do.

PDay8810 · May 25, 2018

I remain just fine with this pick. I also don't think he compares to Carpenter other than being a white guy. Carpenter was a high school all American and a multi year star at a major university while Vander Esch had one great season at a school in the mountain west conference and played 8 man in high school

tomodach10 · May 25, 2018

ArlingtonCowboys100 said:
I think LVE is a way better athlete than Barbie. The thing they seem to have in common is neither is physical and they are white. LVE is way more explosive and is taller with crazy length compared to Barbie. He is also more instinctive. I loathed the Barbie pick and destroyed my remote control when we picked him. LVE is different to me

When bill picked Carpenter, i lost it. Just like when he passed on steven jackson.

Manster7588 · May 25, 2018

tomodach10 said:
When bill picked Carpenter, i lost it. Just like when he passed on steven jackson.

The not picking Jackson irked the hell out of me, but I believe if we chose Jackson we never get Ware.
Parcels wanted Spears over Ware and had to be convinced they'd get both of the took Ware first.

tomodach10 · May 26, 2018

Manster7588 said:
The not picking Jackson irked the hell out of me, but I believe if we chose Jackson we never get Ware.
Parcels wanted Spears over Ware and had to be convinced they'd get both of the took Ware first.

I thought we traded down and got julius jones and the de from purdue. We already had ware.

Manster7588 · May 26, 2018

tomodach10 said:
I thought we traded down and got julius jones and the de from purdue. We already had ware.

Nope, we got Ware the following year. Now its entirely possible the team talks Parcells into Ware over Spears, but I think Parcells would have dug his heels in.

tomodach10 · May 26, 2018

Manster7588 said:
Nope, we got Ware the following year. Now its entirely possible the team talks Parcells into Ware over Spears, but I think Parcells would have dug his heels in.

Thanks.

ArlingtonCowboys100 · May 30, 2018

tomodach10 said:
When bill picked Carpenter, i lost it. Just like when he passed on steven jackson.

Ditto. Jackson just looked like the real deal and when we traded down I was irate. Not quite as irate as when we passed on Randy Moss but very close. In both cases we had an elite player sitting there in a position of need and we passed.

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